Health Committee on March 21st, 2024

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Who are you accusing of treason, sir?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Minister and—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Your crazy bombast and your foolish, petulant behaviour—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Who are you accusing of treason?

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

—will not make this committee bow down.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

You can't accuse somebody of treason and not name them. I think that's totally irresponsible.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I'm here to ask the questions and you're here to answer them, which you continue to refuse to do.

This is actually a point of privilege, if you don't want to answer the questions. Is that how you want to do this?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

What I want to be able to do is understand who you just accused of treason, sir. That's an incredibly awful accusation.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

It is. Do you know what the definition of treason is?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Who are you accusing of treason?

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

No, I'm asking the questions. Do you know what the definition of treason is?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I get to ask questions. You don't get to dictate that.

Who are you accusing of treason, sir?

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Do you know what the definition of treason is—yes or no?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Who are you accusing of treason?

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

You really have no idea. That's exactly what Canadians want to hear.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Who are you accusing of treason?

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

What's the definition of treason, Minister?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

If you are going to accuse somebody of treason in this country, that is a reprehensible thing to do. I would ask that you name who you are accusing of treason.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Do you know what? I do not need to answer your questions, but you need to answer mine.

What is the definition of treason? Do you have any idea?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I'd be curious. You named somebody as being treasonous, so who are they and what's your definition?

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I asked you what the definition of treason is. Do you know what it is?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

It's betraying your country.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

No. That's not it. It is actually, very simply, knowingly communicating “military or scientific information” or documents “to an agent of a state other than Canada” with the intention of jeopardizing the safety or defence of Canada.

Did that happen at this lab?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Neither of us is a lawyer, but you and I would both know that calling somebody something like a—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Do you know what, Minister? You're not a doctor, but you made a whole bunch of claims today that are non-scientific as well.