Health Committee on Oct. 29th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You have 20 more seconds. Go ahead.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

It's really important to make that distinction. These powers only come into force when there is a serious human health risk. You're right that most of the time that doesn't arrive, thank God, but when it does, that's when these powers—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Minister, your 20 seconds are up.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—are triggered. That's why these powers must stay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Minister, you've been in power for nine years. You didn't decide to make a single change to this until last year. Why take such a long time if you claim that this is such a serious, egregious issue? We have now heard that there were 350 issues, 31 that had public advisories and only three that were uncooperative. Why not come up with a policy that will deal with those three, rather than thousands and thousands of Canadian female entrepreneurs? This industry is primarily female entrepreneurs. I've been shocked by the number of constituents who have reached out to me, people from across the country who are really concerned about this, and they are primarily women.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

If they had the right information—that this doesn't affect compliant businesses—then they wouldn't be concerned, and hopefully you would help spread that.

There was an attempt in 2014 to do this, which was shot down by the then Conservative government. That's too bad.

In 2016, we began negotiations as a government. You can't have it both ways. You can't attack us for not having enough consultations, and then attack us because the consultations were too long. I mean, you have to pick one. Since 2016, we've been having consultations and, because of all the misinformation being thrown around, yes, unfortunately, it's taken this long. You are attacking me for not having enough consultations, and now I'm being attacked for having too many.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I never attacked you for too many consultations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mrs. Goodridge.

The last round of questions, for three minutes, will go to Ms. Kayabaga, please.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I know a lot of time has been wasted, time to actually ask questions that can answer some of the concerns that people who are in this sector in our communities have. Could you tell us things that we should know? For example, there's been a question around whether or not this is going to increase costs for Canadians. Is there anything you can talk about that I may not have five minutes to be able to ask about, including the cost for Canadians? If you could debunk that, that would be great.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I hope that people in the industry watch this and know that I'm cheering for them. I want them to succeed. It's just like when we had the Smoke-Free Ontario Act come in, and people told me that this was the end of restaurants. It was going to destroy everything, and everybody was going to move elsewhere. It didn't happen, folks. You can go back and watch the videos on seat belts, which were going to destroy industry and make everything terrible.

This is what happens. Conservatives use these arguments, this fearmongering, that the end is going to happen and that, if you keep people safe, you're making this terrible choice that's going to destroy industry.

I would say to anybody in the industry that having the power when there is a serious human health issue, and only then, to recall products and have fines determined by a court, to make sure that the court can appropriately disincentivize that bad behaviour and punish those who do it, is just good common sense, and it makes the Canadian brand strong.

If you're a compliant business or you're a business that's even trying to be compliant, this will cost you exactly zero dollars. If you're a consumer, you're going to be able to see that “made in Canada” and know that the product you're taking is safe. That's worth a lot. When we sell that product around the world and they see “made in Canada” and see that it's safe, that's worth a lot. We need to protect that.

One of the reasons I'm being so forceful here today is that there's been so much misinformation that we have to spike through that misinformation so that people hear the truth. If you are a compliant business or a business trying to be compliant, you have no cost and nothing to fear here, just like if you're not committing crimes, you don't have to worry about the punishment for a crime.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Why do you think the Conservatives did not want to ask questions today specifically on this bill they put forward?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

The misinformation on this thing existed in a very small quarter, and there have been some people who are very invested in spinning misinformation. I think some people have been caught up in it. It's too bad that has occurred—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

On a point of order, I have Mrs. Goodridge.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—because the truth and the facts on this are completely separate and apart, and there's—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Minister, please. We have a point of order from Mrs. Goodridge.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I very specifically asked all of my questions directly on this bill, so being characterized as avoiding questions on this bill is completely misleading to Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mrs. Goodridge, a point of interruption is not a point of order, and it doesn't take precedence over the questions and answers. Quite frankly, you know better.

You have 30 seconds, Minister.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I'll end on this. Right now, we're seeing a return of measles, tuberculosis and syphilis, and it's because of misinformation. It has to stop. We can cross swords in a lot of places, but misrepresenting health and misrepresenting what is happening in health costs lives. We can't afford it, so let's have a straight conversation about what is and is not happening, and let's stop the nonsense of peddling misinformation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you for the extra time you've afforded us. Good luck with your press conference. I hope this is the most challenging thing you have to do today.

We're going to suspend for three or four minutes to allow the minister to take his leave and have Mr. Lee join us. We'll suspend for about three or four minutes to get ready for the second panel.

We're suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I call the meeting back to order.

We're going to continue with the second part.

Please allow me to welcome, from the Department of Health, David Lee, chief regulatory officer of the health products and food branch.

I don't anticipate that you have an opening statement. I propose we proceed directly to questions with the Conservatives.

Dr. Ellis, go ahead.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

Obviously, you were all part of this. I find it fascinating to hear the minister say he's such a fan of the industry but characterize factories as “full of feces”. I know he found that quite humorous, but I would suggest to all of you, sitting there in a $13.2-billion industry.... We'll have a chance to hear from industry folks on Thursday, thankfully.

For Canadians, could you tell us how many factories full of feces were actually found? That's a direct quote from the minister. How many factories full of feces were found? Just a number is great.

[Linsey Hollett]

Thank you for the question.

I do not have a number specific to rat feces.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much.

Let's scale it back a bit from the rhetoric delivered by the minister. How many factories were found to have feces?