Health Committee on June 6th, 2022

[Jocelyne Voisin]

No. I don't think the Constitution has changed, if you would like an answer to that question.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you.

When the Prime Minister made that promise at the end of August 2021, during an election campaign, that his government would spend $250 million in 2021-22 and $625 million in budget 2022, he would have known what the jurisdictional arrangement in our Constitution was, and he would, you would think, have factored that in to the promise he made to get elected.

[Jocelyne Voisin]

I can tell you that the government is committed to creating a dedicated Canada mental health transfer.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB]

Okay, thank you. I'm good.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Lake.

Next is Dr. Hanley, please, for five minutes.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you to all the witnesses for appearing today. It's been very interesting testimony so far.

I'm going to go first to Mr. Aziz again, on the subject of the challenges with rising food costs, particularly in the north. I know we have a nutrition north program, but, given the challenges, especially through the pandemic and with rising costs, I wonder, Mr. Aziz, if you could comment on how we can ensure access to nutritious food choices, especially of fruits and vegetables, and a variety of food choices, and how we continue to ensure access, particularly in rural northern and remote communities.

[Dr. Alfred Aziz]

Definitely the issue of access to nutritious food is an important issue. Canada's food guide recognizes that. There is a whole section in Canada's dietary guidelines that talks about the social determinants of health and of healthy eating, and the importance of governments working together and stakeholders working together to ensure access. The role of Canada's food guide is to provide information and the best advice on healthy eating, and to work collaboratively with partners and stakeholders to achieve that.

We talked about the school food program, which is under the jurisdiction of the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food and the Minister of Families, Children and Social Development. We continue to provide information to Canadians on how best to eat according to their budget. We have a web page on Canada's food guide that provides tips and actionable advice to support Canadians in making healthy food choices while living on a budget.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

Ms. Clifford, you mentioned a number of research projects under way. I think you mentioned emergency research to understand some of the pandemic's impacts on children's health. Can you comment on the research turnaround and how we can look forward to policy changes based on research findings on an accelerated basis, just because of the urgency of some of what we think has happened or understand from other sources has happened through the pandemic?

[Dr. Tammy Clifford]

Sure. If there's one thing I can say about the Canadian academic health research community, it's how quickly they mobilized in order to pivot—I know that's a word that perhaps has been overused in the past couple of years—to be able to do research that would support the needs of decision-makers.

What we've been able to do in addition to actually launching a number of rapid funding opportunities is build in requirements for the researchers to provide their data almost in real time. For example, with clinical trials, Canada is part of a G7 and WHO group that asked for data to be shared publicly in real time, via preprints, via briefings and whatnot, kind of...I don't want to say bypassing the typical academic process of looking for publication. All that is to say that the Canadian academic community has really rallied behind this. We are, again, two-plus years in, seeing the results of those projects that we funded early on in the pandemic. Suffice it to say, the commitment is there.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you very much.

Perhaps I have time to squeeze in one more question, for Ms. Weber.

You mentioned the stabilization of vaping, which is great to see and which is what I'm seeing, at least anecdotally, in high schools around here.

Very quickly, can you comment on the link between vaping and tobacco use and what you have seen so far, and whether there is any ongoing trend of there being a gateway from vaping to tobacco among children and youth?

[Kendal Weber]

Yes. I'll be very quick.

We are seeing youth smoking levels at all-time lows. Despite the rapid increase in vaping among youth and then its stabilizing, we have not seen that turn into smoking for youth.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Weber and Dr. Hanley.

Next is Mr. Barrett, please, for five minutes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair, and I'd like to thank all the officials who are joining us today.

I want to circle back to an answer that was provided to Monsieur Garon with respect to the $2 billion that's been included in the budget to address the backlogs for care, appointments, surgery and diagnostics. I'm not sure if I caught it all in that very quick back-and-forth, but I believe there was a reference to a study that was completed by the department on how much money was needed to address that backlog with each of the provinces.

Through the chair to Ms. Voisin, please, do I have that correct?

[Jocelyne Voisin]

Yes, we did a study to provide a proxy analysis based on the data that was available.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thanks very much for that answer.

I'm wondering, is that study something the department would be able to provide to the committee in writing?

[Jocelyne Voisin]

I will look into that and get back to you.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay.

For clarity, is it just that the information may not be able to be shared publicly? Is that what you would need to check?

[Jocelyne Voisin]

I will have to get back to you.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Okay, so we'll look forward to that response.

We know that before COVID-19 we had a situation across our country in which hospitals operated on good days at 95% capacity and on other good days at 130% capacity, which is often referred to as hallway health care.

The provinces have asked for somewhere in the neighbourhood of $28 billion to $38 billion to help them catch up and address some of that. I think the misspeak in your opening comments, Madame Voisin, was maybe some hope for some of the provinces when they heard a $200-billion increase in transfers, though I think that may have required a longer budget conversation in the House.

I think that getting a look at that breakdown would be incredibly helpful, but it also has to be done in consultation with the provinces. They are looking for those increases. I'm just wondering if there's any framework for upcoming discussions, specifically with respect to allocations of funds to address the issues that we've seen arise with children as a result of COVID-19, when the first ministers gather for conversations about health transfers with the federal government.

[Jocelyne Voisin]

Essentially, we talk to the provinces all the time at the deputy minister level in terms of our engagement with them, speaking about priorities in health and how to improve the health care system—issues like health human resources, as discussed, and digital health, virtual care and how our health system is transforming.

I can say that the Government of Canada provides a significant amount of funding to the provinces and territories, with $41.9 billion in cash supports to provinces and territories through the CHT, growing to $43.1 billion in 2021-22 and $45.2 billion in 2022-23. This is stable, predictable funding for the provinces and territories, in addition to the $2 billion that I spoke about with respect to the surgical backlogs.

In fact, the government provided significant support to the provinces and territories throughout the pandemic. Eight out of 10 dollars provided came from the federal government to support provinces and territories.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I appreciate that answer.

I guess I'd just say, with respect to stable and predictable funding, that the provinces asking for $28 billion and getting $2 billion not in the form of ongoing funding, but just as a perhaps strings attached, perhaps not, one-time announcement in the budget when they're looking for an ongoing conversation.... The Prime Minister has said the conversation that they're looking for can happen after COVID-19, which we know persists. I think that with respect to stability and predictability and our responsibility to respect the make-up of this country and the provinces' right of jurisdiction over health care, it's important that we actually collaborate and that the government collaborate with them.

Unfortunately, with that, I think I ate up the rest of my time. Again, I want to thank all of the officials for taking our questions today. I look forward to the response with respect to that breakdown from the study on the needs by the provinces.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Barrett.

We have Dr. Powlowski, please, for five minutes.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I'm a little unprepared here, because I didn't think it was my turn.

My question is for the Department of Health, and Ms. Voisin.

You mentioned in your testimony that the government had committed money—here, I hope I'm quoting you correctly—to help 11,000 foreign graduates to be more quickly credentialed. By way of explanation, you said that many provinces have been innovative in finding ways to more quickly license foreign graduates. The department was looking at how to get out the best practices of some of these provinces. I wonder if you can elaborate on that.

As you may or may not know, the committee has been studying this issue quite recently. Obviously, licensing for more foreign graduates is a good way of addressing the shortage of health care professionals. Can you tell us what are some of the innovative practices of some of the provinces that we're looking to emulate? Do you know?

[Jocelyne Voisin]

Yes, sure, I can speak to a couple. In Ontario, for instance, they're allowing some health professionals to work in the health care system while they're waiting for their credential recognition to come through, not necessarily at the level of credentials they are seeking, but to work within the health care system in support, for instance, of PSWs, as they work to get their credentials.