Health Committee on June 8th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 25 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Health. Today we meet for two hours to study the subject matter of supplementary estimates (A) with Minister Duclos and senior officials.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Everyone here who's participating is quite familiar with the preliminaries, so I won't belabour those points.

I'll remind you not to take screenshots or photos of your screen.

The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

In accordance with our routine motion, I'm informing the committee that all witnesses have completed the required connection tests in advance of the meeting.

Colleagues, I have a couple of things before we introduce our witnesses. First, the minister has a hard stop at 5:15.

Second, I want to remind members of this: Traditionally, the witnesses are allowed to spend as much time answering the question as the questioner has taken to pose it. If necessary, I'll be enforcing this.

Minister, if you go on longer than the question, you can expect to be interrupted by me or by the person who posed the question.

Members, if you cut the witness off before they've been afforded as much time to answer the question as you have taken to ask it, you can expect me to intervene and allow for the witness to answer.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses who are with us this afternoon, starting with the Honourable Jean-Yves Duclos, Minister of Health.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes, Mr. Barrett.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

My apologies for the interruption, Chair.

Since the minister is with us for a shorter period of time than I expect the departmental witnesses will be, I'm wondering if it is possible to have the minister's opening remarks only, so that we can put our questions to the minister. Following his departure, we could then hear the opening remarks from departmental officials, if they are planning on giving them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Absolutely.

From the Department of Health we have the deputy minister, Dr. Stephen Lucas. From the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, we have Dr. Siddika Mithani, president. From the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, we have Dr. Michael Strong, president. From the Public Health Agency of Canada, we have Dr. Harpreet Kochhar, president, and Dr. Theresa Tam, chief public health officer.

Thank you all for taking the time to appear today.

We are going to begin with opening remarks from Minister Duclos, followed by questions for Minister Duclos. We'll defer the statements from the other witnesses until Minister Duclos has departed.

Minister Duclos, I hope you're feeling okay. I understand that you've recently been diagnosed with COVID. Thank you very much for being with us.

You now have the floor.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll try to be very brief in my opening remarks.

I would like to start by thanking all of you for the opportunity to appear today to speak about the supplementary estimates as they regard the health portfolio.

As you mentioned, I am accompanied by a great team of officials—the highest-ranking officials that there can be on the health portfolio—including Deputy Minister Lucas; the president of the agency, Dr. Kochhar; Dr. Tam, the chief public health officer; Dr. Mithani, president of the CFIA; and Dr. Strong, president of the CIHR.

I'll begin by saying a few words about our ongoing fight against COVID‑19 and the importance of continuing it.

When Minister Bennett and I met with you a few weeks ago, the epidemiological situation was critical. Although we experienced another surge across the country due to the BA.2 variant in the months that followed, in recent weeks we have fortunately seen a decrease in transmission in most areas.

Laboratory test positivity has also generally declined. The rate of hospitalizations remains high and variable across the country, but in most regions the incidence of severe disease continues to decline overall.

With the supplementary estimates I am presenting today, we have refined our plans further to better support our mandate priorities as we move forward.

In total we are seeking just over $1.54 billion on behalf of the health portfolio, which includes Health Canada, the Public Health Agency of Canada, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, the Canadian Institute of Health Research, and the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board. Of these five organizations, only Health Canada and PHAC are seeking additional resources through these supplementary estimates.

I'll start with Health Canada, which is seeking a net increase of $20 million through the Supplementary Estimates (A), 2022-23, which would bring the proposed estimates to just under $3.9 billion.

The proposed increase reflects a reallocation of $20 million for the Safe Restart Agreement from 2021-22 to 2022-23. Specifically, the funds will be used for testing and evidence‑based tracking, contact tracing, and improved data management, so that relevant public health information can be shared with all levels of government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Did his screen just freeze?

He's in Quebec City.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

They have better Internet in Whitehorse, where Dr. Hanley is.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We're going to suspend to see if we can get this resolved.

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

The meeting is back in session.

We can hear you, Minister, and I'm not sure exactly where you got cut off.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I suggest that we turn straight to questions, because I have tried my best to be as quick as possible, but obviously I used some of the time. I'm sorry for that, but being in confinement, it's hard to have people around me to set up the appropriate network and make the appropriate connections.

I'm sorry for that, but I'll turn it back to you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

We're going to begin with rounds of questions, starting with Mr. Barrett for six minutes, please.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thanks very much, Chair, and I thank the Minister for joining us today.

Minister, I just want to express to you my best wishes for good health and recovery following your having announced that you have come down with COVID. You look great, and I'll offer that as a statement and not a question.

I have two questions with respect to COVID mandates.

What are the metrics that are currently being used to keep the mandates in place? We'll start with that first question, sir.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you for your kind words.

Data is a great question. Let me just point to the fact that although we would all like COVID to be ended, over the last months, between January and May, we have had 10,000 people lose their lives and 60,000 hospitalizations, which is much larger than pre-2022, so the rates of hospitalization and death have unfortunately increased over the last few months, and we are following that closely.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

We've heard from infectious disease specialists over the last few days, and I appreciate the numbers that you've offered with respect to cases and mortality, but infectious disease experts have said that the mandates are not contributing to the prevention of loss of life.

These are experts like Dr. Isaac Bogoch, who offered “at the end of the day the current policy probably isn't doing a whole lot”.

Do you agree with these expert infectious disease specialists, Minister?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Experts do indeed point to what you allude to, Mr. Barrett, which is that we need to use all tools available. This is obviously a disease that can be serious, but it's also a disease that can be prevented. By definition, being a communicable, transmissible disease, it can be stopped. At least the incidence can be reduced through all sorts of tools, including vaccination and other ones as well.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

We've seen and heard, again from infectious disease specialists, that the policies that are in place lag the science. We know that uptake on what is currently known as full vaccination is exceptionally high in Canada, but we also have naturally acquired immunity, in addition to that first and second dose that an overwhelming majority of Canadians have received. Approximately 50% of Canadians have received third doses as well. Aside from incremental changes to uptake on the vaccine, the mandates that are in place are not driving further vaccination.

On what date do you expect that you will lift the vaccine mandates? Is there a target in terms of further vaccination that your ministry has selected that needs to be achieved?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Those are great questions. Let me speak to the one on how and when we revise those decisions. These decisions are revised every week. We have meetings of the COVID-19 committee every week. We obviously depend on the experts, the data, the science and obviously the prudential principle, which is that this disease has come with surprises ever since we came to know about it two years and a few months ago.

On the vaccination rates, you're right, we can be proud of the [Technical difficulty—Editor] in terms of the third dose, which is essential according to all experts to protect us against the continuation of COVID-19.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Chair, there was a bit of an interruption in the minister's connection there, so I didn't hear the complete answer, but I'm going to continue. It looks like it's restored.

As Canadians haven't been provided with a further target, we have heard that a date for mandates with respect to the border and when they will expire.... Do you expect that they will be extended, and what is the data specifically that's being used to justify an extension or a termination of the mandate that's currently set to expire at the end of this month?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Minister, did you hear the question?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I think I heard it. Again, I'm sorry. The problem is on our side. I'm sure the Internet connection is fine on your side. It's probably in this particular place that the connection is weak.

I think I heard most of the question from Mr. Barrett. As we said, the timeline is reviewed every week, so it could be any time. It could be later, and that depends on the evidence and the advice that is provided by experts within PHAC.

Obviously, you might want to speak to Dr. Tam eventually, because she will have more precisions on the type of regular meeting she's having with her own officials.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister Duclos and Mr. Barrett.

We have Mr. van Koeverden, please, for six minutes.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to flag to the clerk that I don't think the phone lines are working. I'm sorry to re-emphasize that if it wasn't necessary.

Thank you, Minister. I hope, as well, that you are feeling well. Our briefings and regular calls have been missing you, but you look healthy and strong, so it's good to see you in good spirits, and thank you for joining us despite feeling under the weather.

I'd like to change the topic a bit towards women's reproductive health, if that's okay. Our government has said from the very beginning in 2015 that we are a government that believes in access to safe and consistent reproductive health services, including abortions. Although abortion has been legal in Canada for over three decades, many continue to experience barriers to access to safe abortions and female reproductive services.

Minister, can you update this committee on what's being done to remove some barriers to services and offer some accurate reproductive health information for Canadians?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Adam.

As you say, it's about both rights and access, and therefore barriers. The rights of women to have adequate and timely health reproductive and sexual services are, I think, well understood and very much supported by Canadians on all horizons. That being said, the actual access to those services still varies in 2022, which unfortunately puts at risk the safety and health of many women across our country. That's why we announced, in fact, just recently—three weeks ago, I believe—an important investment in community organizations, local and national, to help women with information, guidance and support through information and appropriate guidance for the [Technical difficulty—Editor] because it not only aligns with our vision and our mandate but also supports community organizations in doing the important work they need to do.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

In respect to the time that we have allocated, I might recommend that you go off video for us, so that we can continue to hear your answers without any other interruptions, if that is okay with the clerk. I think it might satisfy the chair, perhaps.

Usually it's typical that we ask people to be on camera when they're speaking, but it's possible that turning off your camera will improve the connection a bit.