Evidence of meeting #18 for Health in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amr.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Instead of “before February 13”, we would say “their work before February 26, 2026”.
We have a motion. Do you want me to read it? Do you all have it? Do you all know what it says?
If there is no further discussion, we can call the question on the motion.
Conservative
Liberal
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Riding Mountain, MB
UC is good.
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
We can move now to finishing up the round we were doing.
We'll go to Ms. Chi for five minutes, please, for the Liberals.
Liberal
Maggie Chi Liberal Don Valley North, ON
I want to say happy new year to everybody. Before I get into the question, I want to thank Luc and Andréanne for their work on the committee last year and welcome our new member, Maxime, to our committee. I'm looking forward to working together.
Thank you to all the members for attending our very first HESA meeting in 2026. Thank you for starting us in the right way by giving us really pertinent information on this topic.
My first question is for Dr. Wright.
In your testimony you mentioned the research environment in Canada and some of the challenges you experienced or the gaps that you see. I just want to ask if you can outline that a little more.
What do you see in other countries? Give us a couple of examples that are working well that we can really learn from.
Professor, McMaster University, As an Individual
Thank you very much for that.
Let me first say that there will never be enough money to do this. I get it. I know it always sounds as though we're whining about trying to do this. I'm deeply concerned that this is a massive public health problem and it's only going to get worse. How do we incentivize young people to work in this area if there's almost no chance for them? You would be much better off going to Vegas to get a grant to support your research in AMR these days. Funding is tight across all the health care sectors, and there's really no dedicated funding for this within the traditional CIHR mandate.
My suggestion would be not to steal money from other people but to try to find a way to fund AMR research directly through the CIHR and not lump it in as part of all of microbiology. Other places do this. I would have pointed to the United States a year ago as being better than this, but who knows what's going on there and what's going to happen? If anything, this is a tremendous opportunity for us because it's chaos for the research community south of the border. There are opportunities to repatriate some outstanding Canadian scientists who are away.
Europe is doing this quite well. There's a lot of dedicated funding in a number of European countries that really emphasize this. I'm thinking of Germany, the United Kingdom and France, which have made this a priority and are funding fundamental and applied research. They're actually funding not just the curiosity-driven research but how to solve this problem. How do we incentivize small companies to get into this? How do we make sure that medicines get to patients in the future?
There are lots of lessons out there to be learned. I think we could take a page from Europe in particular in this area.
Liberal
Maggie Chi Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Thank you, Dr. Wright.
My next question may be for a few people on the panel.
We've heard from witnesses that the data is fragmented and there are some disjointed practices and approaches. I want to pick your brains on some of the innovations you see in this space in Canada. Maybe we can cover a couple of areas. Everybody is from different regions. Dr. Leung is from B.C., Dr. Weiss is from Montreal, and Dr. Bogoch is from Ontario. Maybe each of you could give a quick summary.
Liberal
Professor of Medicine, University of Toronto, As an Individual
There's something really interesting called phage, in which you use viruses to target bacteria. It's been around for ages, but there are people who develop this here in Canada, and it's used to treat the most drug-resistant organisms that don't have antibiotics available for them.
Chief, Division of Infectious Diseases and Medical Microbiology, Jewish General Hospital, As an Individual
I'll speak for Quebec.
I know the CHU de Québec, when Michel Bergeron was at the helm of it, developed a lot of molecular-based diagnostic tests to look for antibiotic-resistant micro-organisms. It has been subsidized by CIHR, and it's doing a great job in that field. It was, in fact, at one point, [Inaudible—Editor] by multinational companies for their innovation.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Yes. We've asked everyone to answer, I think.
Dr. Leung, do you have anything to add or are you cool?
Infectious Diseases Physician and Medical Microbiologist, As an Individual
From the Vancouver side, one innovation is more of a community-based program that was started by the BC Centre for Excellence in HIV/AIDS, which is the treatment-as-prevention approach. They are using that to address syndemic conditions such as opioid use disorder, blood-borne bacterial sexually transmitted infections and other social conditions. Using the treatment-as-prevention bundle, in which we have measurements through the cascades of care, is something we could borrow from how they've managed HIV and AIDS.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you.
Does anyone else want to answer this quickly?
We've gone over time, so I will just say thank you. We'll move on.
I'm going to go to Mr. Blanchette-Joncas for two and a half minutes, please.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'll continue with you, Dr. Weiss.
If you had stable and predictable funding, what priority measures would you implement immediately to better control antimicrobial resistance in hospitals?
Chief, Division of Infectious Diseases and Medical Microbiology, Jewish General Hospital, As an Individual
The first thing would be to have a much broader integrated computer system than what we have now. This would allow for the real-time collection of information on what's going on with certain organisms. Computer integration would definitely be number one.
The second thing would be intervention at the community level. We talk a lot about hospitals, but let's not forget that the vast majority of antibiotics are used outside the hospital, and that's not something we measure. Therefore we need to reach out to family doctors, for example, but also health professionals, like pharmacists, who now have the right to prescribe drugs, to educate them and gather information. It's important to also look at what's happening outside the hospital.
The third thing would be to organize a basic research. We have to try to integrate teams that work in silos. Good teams often discover things, but it stays with them, because they're isolated. Also, their tasks are not integrated, whether across Quebec or Canada. We need to promote the integration of these systems. It's also about selling these teams' capacity in an international market, promoting them, but they should also be promoted across Canada or Quebec to encourage investment in Canada. I think it's important to emphasize that. Obviously, if we can attract outside talent, why not? That's also something that should be facilitated.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC
Dr. Weiss, is it safe to say the Quebec health care system is compelled to pay more to solve the problems that could have been avoided by investing upstream?
Chief, Division of Infectious Diseases and Medical Microbiology, Jewish General Hospital, As an Individual
Everyone in the country is compelled to pay more.
One of the main issues is that we're caught between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, there are companies, whether in the diagnostic or therapeutic field, that are mainly American, and they invest heavily in the United States, because it's a big market. On the other hand, there are companies that invest in Europe. There are also companies that invest in emerging markets, such as Asia, India and China. Canada is somewhat left behind in all of that, because we're a small market.
The idea is to use the synergy between our talents to show the world that, even though we're a small market, we can punch above our weight. We can sell and provide certain information and goods that might be difficult to find elsewhere. Creating structures that would make it possible to sell this information might be a way to find our added value across Canada. I would say that data, especially with artificial intelligence—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you, Dr. Weiss. We've gone well over our time on this one. I'm sorry.
I'll go to Mr. Bailey for five minutes for the Conservatives.
Conservative
Burton Bailey Conservative Red Deer, AB
Thank you, Chair.
Dr. Wright, many trainees are leaving Canada for a stronger biotech opportunity abroad. You've indicated that there are opportunities to possibly start recruiting them back to Canada. Do we have room in our labs and universities to accommodate more individuals?
Professor, McMaster University, As an Individual
First of all, thank you for that. The short answer is yes.
We should never leave talent outside the country. We need the resources to be able to do this. It's challenging enough as it is. We have a tremendous opportunity right now to expand our critical mass in this area, even if we just bring Canadians back home who are working over there, but it won't happen if....
It can't be a zero-sum game. There has to be more investment to make it happen. It is literally an investment in our future.
Conservative
Burton Bailey Conservative Red Deer, AB
Thank you.
Some provinces are now allowing pharmacists to prescribe. Do you feel this leads to over-prescribing?