Evidence of meeting #19 for Health in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was animal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
It is. Well done.
I will now go to the Bloc Québécois for six minutes.
Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I welcome the witnesses who are here today to participate in this study.
My first questions are for you, Dr. Nguyen.
Canada is the only G7 country that has been reducing its investments in research and development since the early 2000s, and of course, these investments form part of its gross domestic product.
From a public health perspective, does this chronic underinvestment now limit our ability to effectively prevent antimicrobial resistance, in turn forcing hospitals, particularly in Quebec, to deal with the consequences, which are much more costly?
Professor, McGill AMR Centre, As an Individual
Thank you very much for your question.
Investment is chronically insufficient. I think the level of investment is totally insufficient, especially when it comes to strategic investment. For example, if we ask how many millions of dollars the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, or CIHR, or granting agencies have invested in AMR research, the figures are often an overestimate of what is actually happening, because it's often in open programs. This means that any project with a theme related to AMR will be considered in this budget.
However, if we really want to have a strategy that is designed to align specifically with actions that are identified, for example, by public health and in the Pan-Canadian Action Plan on Antimicrobial Resistance, we need more concerted investment. For example, when it comes to human health research and the CIHR, $1.8 million doesn't go very far. I think that if we really want to be able to deliver on and implement the strategy that is currently being developed, this is clearly not enough to have an impact.
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC
Thank you, Dr. Nguyen.
You mentioned strategy. Despite repeated warnings, Canada still does not have a fully funded national action plan on antimicrobial resistance, as you just pointed out. As such, in practice, does this lack of federal leadership mean that the provinces, including Quebec, are absorbing the health and organizational repercussions of antimicrobial resistance on their own?
Professor, McGill AMR Centre, As an Individual
First, I'm not an expert in public health policy or governance. However, in my view, based on my observations of what is happening, responsibility in the Canadian action plan should be shared. However, the implementation of this governance remains to be defined. It's not clear at all. How will responsibilities be shared, not only in terms of finances, but also in terms of governance?
In this regard, the way in which this action plan will be implemented is completely unclear. I'd say that one of the shortcomings of the action plan is how it will be implemented, particularly in the Canadian context, where there's shared jurisdiction between the provincial and federal governments.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC
Thank you, Dr. Nguyen.
I'll continue with you, Dr. Weese. We know that resistant infections lead to longer hospital stays, including more complex treatments and more complications. In your opinion, is the underfunding of prevention and surveillance in hospitals already putting a heavier strain on hospital bed capacity, particularly in intensive care?
Professor, University of Guelph, and Director, Centre for Public Health and Zoonoses, As an Individual
The human health care system isn't my area of expertise, but when working with them, this has been a chronic issue. Infection control is improving. The efforts there are improving. We still have a number of gaps.
Underpinning everything is health, as I mentioned. That applies to humans, and that applies to prevention and control activities within hospitals. There is definitely a need for extra control and prevention across the spectrum.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC
Obviously, we understand that your expertise is in the field of health, but funding is still needed to provide quality health services that are accessible, among other things. Currently, the federal government funds approximately 22% of the cost of health care in Quebec. As we know, the provinces are asking for a 35% contribution. This has created an imbalance. Funding is limited, and that concretely reduces the ability of hospitals to implement measures to prevent and control antimicrobial resistance.
You are an expert, so I'd like you to tell the committee the consequences of underfunding a health care system when operating costs exceed the financial support received.
Professor, University of Guelph, and Director, Centre for Public Health and Zoonoses, As an Individual
Again, I have no expertise in the human health care system, so my comments will be limited. There are other people who can speak to that, but we know that prevention is better than treatment.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC
Thank you.
In 2022, Canada sold nearly three times more antimicrobials for animals than the European median, taking biomass into account. In your opinion, does this level of use reflect a structural delay in prevention? What risk does this pose to human health?
Professor, University of Guelph, and Director, Centre for Public Health and Zoonoses, As an Individual
It reflects the need to look. In terms of the earlier question on whether we should compare ourselves with other countries, my answer would be yes. It's not a direct comparison, but we need to look for opportunities, and we shouldn't rest on saying, “Okay, we're similar to someone else, so that's fine.”
Some differences may be inherent in the system. Some may be because of a lack of access to things that we should be able to have. Some may be purely cultural or historical—we do it because this is the way we do it, and they've been doing it better.
We have to look at other systems to figure out how we can improve, and Europe is a strong place to look to. That doesn't necessarily mean we can replicate it. We have to look at their funding, approaches and support and see what we can implement here.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you, Maxime.
I'm going to start the second round. It's a five-minute round this time.
I'll begin with Mr. Bailey for the Conservatives.
You have five minutes, please, Mr. Bailey.
Conservative
Burton Bailey Conservative Red Deer, AB
Thank you, Chair.
This is for the Pork Council.
Mr. Roy, please feel free to speak in French if you're more comfortable answering these difficult questions of mine.
Canada lags in access to and approvals on new vaccines and innovation. This is not the first time we've heard this, whether it's for human health or animal health. We've heard that Canada's bureaucracy is constantly jamming up the process. Why do you believe this is the case, and why are delays and red tape the only consistent thing in Canadian bureaucracy?
Chair, Canadian Pork Council
It's a simple question. I'll answer it in English.
Seriously, the major burden is that we have a small market compared to other countries, and we have a lot of regulation related to accepting new products. This reduces our ability to further have these products on our market.
Once it's recognized by the industry that our market is hard to penetrate because of the regulation and red tape we have in place, firms look away from our country. This is the vicious circle we are in. If we don't correct it, soon we will have so little choice in our veterinary products that it will create a concern for animal welfare, and producers will suffer from that because we don't like having sick animals.
Conservative
Burton Bailey Conservative Red Deer, AB
Thank you.
Dr. Brockhoff, on this side, Conservatives know that Canadian agriculture producers set the standard in the world on several fronts, including on animal health and safety, so first, I'd like to thank all of our farmers for helping feed the world.
Why do you think there tends to be a lot of misinformation circling about the Canadian agriculture industry, especially as it relates to antibiotic use or other medications?
Chief Veterinary Officer, Canadian Pork Council
That's a great question. It's one that we reflect upon significantly.
We perhaps don't do a great job standing up and banging the drums. We have a solid on-farm food safety program that we implemented 30 years ago. We have a drug use policy. We have a responsible use policy. Every single time there's an update to the pan-Canadian action plan on AMR, we update our policies to reflect that, and we update our programs. We audit our farms annually.
We're not getting up there as Canadians and telling our story to the world, and I think we have to tell our story to the world. We are doing good work in this space. There's always opportunity for improvement, but we don't tell our story. We get very focused on all the things we're doing wrong.
Conservative
Burton Bailey Conservative Red Deer, AB
Mr. Wiens, there's a hamburger chain from 1956 that I'm not going to name, but I find it very misleading that they say none of their products have antibiotics in them. How do they get away with this misleading information?
Director, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
That's an interesting question. I'm not sure how claims can be made in this fashion.
Antibiotics are simply a tool, and they're one of those things, which I think René has talked about too.... We don't want to see our animals sick, but we should first do all the prevention we can so we don't ever get to a point where we have to use antibiotics.
Where they get this claim from, I'm not sure, and I'm not sure about the validity.
Conservative
Burton Bailey Conservative Red Deer, AB
If antibiotics are used, my understanding is that there's a period when an animal remains in quarantine—I'll use that word. What is that period? I guess it would matter what animal, but let's use beef as the example.
Director, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
Depending on the antibiotic used, there will be different withdrawal times. I'm sure one of the veterinarians could speak to that.
There's a range. It can be anywhere from, let's say, a 48-hour withdrawal to even up to a month, depending on what it is. That protocol is very important, and it's followed very closely.
Conservative
