Health Committee on April 23rd, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

This is a point of order.

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

They're taking advantage of your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Ms. Konanz, can I finish what I'm saying, please?

The point of this meeting was to discuss pharmaceutical sovereignty. We have witnesses who came to do that. We have now moved off that order of the day and onto this motion, so she's speaking to the order of the day. She's saying it's a pity that we've moved off the order of this meeting and onto something else. She's allowed to do that, and she has not finished speaking. I would ask you to please allow her to finish speaking. Thank you.

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

She's not respecting your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Go ahead, Ms. Chi.

[Maggie Chi, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I think the chair can be the judge of that.

Thank you, Chair.

We've heard, even during the three short meetings that were dedicated to this study, about the challenges and some of the opportunities within this topic. We saw during COVID all the shortages that were brought upon our nation, the resilience of our nation and how people came together. That was not without challenges, but we came together.

Do we want to be in the same situation again? I'd really prefer to not be, and I'm pretty sure everybody around this table—all members of this committee—would like to see us move forward with a lot more resilience and with more supply of things in this space so that our front lines are not overwhelmed like they were during COVID.

We were caught off guard, but now we've seen the lessons learned, which are the genesis of this motion and this study. I'm gobsmacked that every time we try to talk about this issue, it gets sidetracked and derailed, which really makes me question the intent of—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

Chair, which standing order is she referring to?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

She's not speaking to a standing order, Mr. Mazier. She's speaking to the fact that we have now ended the order of the day. We had witnesses come to speak on pharmaceutical sovereignty, and she's speaking to the fact that she would have liked to see that order of the day continue. You all received the notice of the order of the day, and we were meant discuss pharmaceutical sovereignty—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

Is she debating, or does she have a point of order?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

It is a valid point of order she's making.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

What standing order is she referring to?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I don't know what you mean by a standing order. Committees meet, and they have an order for what business they're going to discuss that day. You get that from the clerk every time. You received that this time. It said we would discuss pharmaceutical sovereignty, and we therefore invited people to give up their time to come here and discuss that. We have now removed that from the table. The vote was to remove it from the table. Ms. Chi is speaking to the fact that the order of today's business has now been violated, and she is saying why this is so. She's allowed to do that—

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

Is it a point of order, or is it debate? That's my simple question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

It's a point of order about what's on the order of the day, which is pharmaceutical sovereignty.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

If that's your judgment, I challenge the chair on that. It is not a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Mazier, it is. Do you understand what the order of the day is? Did you get the notice?

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

I'm challenging the chair's decision. That is not a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Mazier, I will not even ask for a vote on this, because I know that whatever rules are set by Parliament for how committees behave.... I read them out to you. I'm trying to be as transparent as I can, but because you have the numbers, you can vote down a standing order and the rules set by Parliament. That's just because you have the numbers. I don't believe that is in any way democratic.

We are allowing people to speak. Not allowing people to speak is something that I believe.... If you want to challenge the chair, go ahead. I know that you will win the vote, because there are more of you. It's not about order. It's not about rules. It's not about procedure. It's just about having numbers to challenge the chair on something that is actually not procedurally correct.

He's challenging the chair. Is there unanimous consent?

[Maggie Chi, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I'm sorry, Chair, but before we proceed, out of respect for the witnesses' time, can we please dismiss them?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I will dismiss the witnesses.

I would like to apologize to the witnesses for giving up their time, preparing their submissions and coming here to answer questions only to be derailed. I apologize to you, but you may leave, because this meeting can only go to a certain time based on resources. You were asked to come for two hours, so I'm sorry that I'm going to have to ask you to leave. Thank you for your time.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

For the record, witnesses, I tried to do that 15 minutes ago.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Mazier, please, I don't know what you're saying for the record. You did not say anything to me about letting the witnesses go, because you did not have the floor. Somebody else had the floor.

You can say what you want and mutter it in the corner, but respect means that if somebody is speaking, you allow them to finish when they have the floor. That's called mutual respect. In the House, when somebody is speaking, if you yell and scream, the Speaker will say to you, “I'm sorry, but so-and-so has the floor; that is not a point of order.”

You cannot tell me what you are thinking. I am unable—I'm working on it—to read minds. I'm learning how to read minds without anybody speaking, but at the moment Ms. Chi has the floor. She's speaking—

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Chair, there's a—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Let me finish my sentence.

Ms. Chi—

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

This is a violation of his rights as a member.