Evidence of meeting #31 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Monsieur Goman...I mean, Godin. Are you splitting your time with anyone?
Conservative
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Well, that's the privilege of the chair, and I respect that.
That will be done in committee. Minister, you clearly stated that you wanted a debate nevertheless. You know what a minority government is, you know that there's a possibility that there'll be an election. We all have good intentions. But sincerely, we don't want fraud and at the same time we want people to vote.
If we can achieve both those things in keeping with democracy, then, together with Mr. Lukiwski, we will want to act appropriately and with all the facts before us. However, we mustn't forget the public. We don't want a Parliament that passes bills without any regard for the public.
Let me say it clearly: some people are worried. A list of witnesses sent to the clerk. I want us to hear these witnesses and make enlightened decisions.
We haven't discussed university students. Students who attend a university, be it in Winnipeg or Moncton, don't all come from those cities. They come from everywhere. People in my riding attend the University of Sherbrooke. They arrive there and they are not properly enumerated. That's what happened with the University of Toronto. Students arrived in Toronto and were unable to exercise their right to vote. That led to scandals.
How can we make sure these people can vote?
If we develop a bill, we have to do it adequately. I accept and I appreciate the speed with which you tabled this bill. But as a committee, we still have responsibilities. University students are one. I'd like to hear you on that subject.
Not only the homeless and Aboriginals; there are other groups as well and they're asking that the bill take them into account.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
I think you made a very good point about students. When I was here on a previous occasion talking about the fixed election dates, one of the considerations that went into the third week of October was to accommodate students.
If you got it in the spring and you get it in the middle of April or the middle of May, when university students across this country are moving home or are in between residences, that could be problematic. By the third week of October, everyone who is a student is where they are supposed to be at that particular time.
With respect to the requirements in this bill, one of the things I think you can say that is characteristic of all students is that they do have identification. That usually isn't a problem at that particular level. In the experiences that I've had, the universities themselves have cooperated with efforts to make sure that students are enumerated and get that opportunity to vote.
I think this is a reasonable response, and I think, quite frankly, the combination of this bill and the previous bill that you passed would be of assistance to students.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
But I still say, Mr. Minister, if people are interested in coming to give their views, we should listen to them.
Conservative
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I knew you would say that. I'm saying that's your opinion. We know we are the masters of our own house, but in your opinion you will recommend.
Conservative
Conservative
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
If they make a request. As a minister, if you know there's a request from students, you will wish for us to hear them. Right?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Thank you, colleagues.
The third round. We do have time, but we're starting to repeat the same sort of stuff, so let's see if we can keep it to three minutes. We can go to a fourth round, if we need, but can we keep it down to three minutes?
Madam Jennings, please.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Earlier, in response to Mr. Lukiwski's criticisms of the Senate with regard to Bill C-2 and their holding it up, you made some comments that you would hope the Senate would not do the same thing with this piece of legislation once it gets through the House and gets to the Senate.
I'm curious, because the work the Senate did on Bill C-2 was in large part as a result of requests of witnesses who had appeared before the legislative committee of the House of Commons. They felt they had not been given sufficient time to fully expose their point of view and recommendations they wished to make and felt the committee itself had not been given sufficient time to deal with some of the very grey and complex issues. Therefore, they went to the Senate and basically got the full hearing they wanted to have. I don't think one should be bashing the head of the Senate for having taken the time that the legislative committee of the House did not.
In this case, as you very well know, there is consensus. This committee put forward a report with recommendations. We were taken by surprise by the government coming out with a piece of legislation as part of its response immediately, because, as my colleague Monsieur Godin pointed out, our meetings were basically in camera. Therefore, ordinary people, organizations, etc., did not have an opportunity to bring forth their views prior to the committee developing a report with recommendations to the government.
I'm not going to criticize the government for acting very quickly. We now have the opportunity, because we do have this legislation, to bring forth witnesses, to hear from Canadians and interested stakeholders. I'm very pleased to hear that you agree that should we receive requests from representatives of organizations or ordinary Canadians and that this committee should in fact hear from them.
That's the only statement I wish to make. I believe I've done it within the three minutes you asked for. I wish to thank the minister for his openness to having this committee hear from ordinary Canadians who request to be before us.
Thank you.
Conservative
Rob Nicholson Conservative Niagara Falls, ON
As a clarification, Madam Jennings, I actually didn't repeat Mr. Lukiwski's comments about the Senate. I said in the legislative process it's my hope--and it is my sincere hope--that, and I used the words, “we get a break”. As we do in the House of Commons, I hope--I'm in the business of hoping--that all pieces of legislation get through Parliament.
With respect to the legislative process, I try to be reasonable, and I think I've been patient. Part of our democratic reform package was an introduction of a bill on Senate tenure. It was introduced at the end of May. I know what you're going to say, I should be more patient, but it is six months later and it's only at second reading. So I encourage my colleagues in the other place, to the extent possible and to the extent that's reasonable, to move some of these pieces of legislation. That's my view of it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Goodyear
Thank you.
I have Mr. Reid on my list next. Are you taking the time, Mr. Hill?
Conservative
Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
I'll just take a minute.
I want to make the point, in listening to the comments, that nobody is suggesting we don't do this right and don't do it thoroughly. But the issue here is that there is a sense of urgency. We had agreement around this room when we had earlier discussions on this that all four parties said there are things that need to be addressed and should be addressed before the next election campaign. That's all we're saying here. If there are serious flaws, let's hear about it.
We can drag this out. We know the opposition certainly can drag this out until the cows come home and it won't be in place for the next election campaign. That's our concern. I share the minister's concern in that, and I think the government side is ready to move ahead as quickly as possible. I thought that was the agreement we had in this committee when we launched ourselves down this road of trying to bring improvements in time for the next election.
