Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 22nd, 2007

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

That probably provides an answer to the question. If it had been something that was causing a great problem in some part of the country, I assume you would have gotten to hear about it.

I want to ask something else that relates to your new responsibilities. Actually, let me take a step back and say it relates more to the involvement that you've had internationally in the past, and the role that Canada, projecting forward now, could take in participating in the introduction of democracy and of oversight of elections in these countries.

There are two ways of approaching this. We could try to act where there is the greatest need, or we could try to have a focus that is based on countries that have some kind of similarity to ours. For example, I assume that part of our involvement in Haiti has to do with cultural and linguistic similarities. I'm wondering if there is a direction or a focus that seems to make sense, from your perspective, in regard to where we focus our efforts as we move forward and how we best use our resources in this regard.

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

What I've noticed since we've started to be involved on the international scene is that initially, countries were moving in that direction voluntarily. In other words, they were changing because of the fact that geopolitics were changing. Now what's happening is that more of the situations are stressful. They're brought about by massive change that comes from the outside, to a certain extent, and that is sometimes fomented from the inside. That makes the issue more problematic.

I think--I'm not going to call it the market--the second and third time is where people have to live with their disillusion that democracy did not solve everything after the last election. The last election did not solve everything. Democracy's still not installed. This is where progress will have to be made. Efforts will have focus on helping them to establish systems that are more credible and on reaching out to people to make them understand that democracy is a permanent process; it's not just that particular event.

Without that particular event, you don't have it. But it's more than that. You have to work at it every day. You have to have a free press. You have to have a country that is free of graft among the public servants. You have to have so many things. You have to have a Supreme Court. You have to have a court system that is independent of the legislative and executive branches. You have to have an auditor general who reviews the books and produces reports. All these things come together, and I think this is where more of this will have to be done.

In many cases, they went for the election, and it did well, but it's not sufficient. We saw Haiti having to start over and start over and start over.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you.

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

I will only add this comment, Mr. Chairman.

Whenever I was asked, if time allowed, I accepted the challenge. Because I think, despite most circumstances, it's always worth another try, especially when you see the people, the situation they're in, and how they stand to benefit, eventually, from a process starting the right way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Godin asked to speak. You have three minutes, please, and then we'll have Mr. Hill.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I still believe that from 9:30 to 9:30 or 8:00 to 8:00, you still have 12 hours. I think one thing we have to cope with in a big country like ours is that there is a four-hour time difference between the Atlantic and Vancouver. I think that sometimes, when the results start to come in and become public before the last poll closes, that could create interference. Maybe we could get your view on that, very quickly.

I would also like an answer to the question Mr. Dewar asked about a person who goes in at the last minute to vote. If a poll closes at eight o'clock, and he walks in at a quarter to eight, and you say, “No, you don't have your identification card, you have to go back home,” then he cannot vote.

I want to give you the opportunity to answer those two questions, please. Thank you.

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

I think, as I said in my earlier comments, that it will be up to Parliament to decide and then to review what will happen in those cases. I did bring forth the example of the only knowledge I had, which was the situation in Toronto and the numbers that came out of that situation. They have a system that allows a remedy on the spot, as opposed to having to send people back home to get another piece of ID or finding someone who is already on the list for that particular poll who will attest for them. So that's something to look at.

With respect to what we call staggered hours, it must be remembered that, in effect, the six time zones of Canada have been reduced to two time zones through the staggered hours. What one gets is Atlantic Canada, with perhaps one Quebec riding--I can't remember the name--as the first time zone, and at this time, the results of those polls are frozen. They shut down, I think, two hours before the rest.

All the rest, except for a half-hour differential in British Columbia, shut down at the same time. They open at the same time and shut down at the same time. So there are no results that can go out.

So we're talking about the 10.1% of the results flowing out from Atlantic Canada. It must be remembered that those results are available to Atlantic Canadians who have voted. By law, at this time they've not been made available to the rest. That is a matter that the Supreme Court now has under advisement. That was questioned. The law, as written, was passed by Parliament, but it was contested by a particular person. That has gone right up to the Supreme Court, and it's now under advisement, so I won't comment any further except to reiterate what the basis of it was.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Hill, please.

[Jay Hill, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Actually, my question was going to follow up on Mr. Reid's comments and questions about the staggered voting hours and on exactly the problem Mr. Kingsley just referred to, about it being at the Supreme Court and about the whole business with modern technology, the difficulty of trying to contain election results in one part of the country while the polls are still open in another.

You've already addressed that. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you very much, colleagues.

I see that the comments are wrapping up and I sense the committee has finished. I would therefore like to wrap things up.

Mr. Kingsley, I've been chairman of this committee for about a year and a bit. I have not known you for decades and decades and decades, as some of my other colleagues have expressed. I can tell you that my experience with you in the very short time that we've known each other has been extremely pleasant. I very much appreciated some of the times we've spoken on the phone. I frankly find your balance between wit and humour extremely refreshing. A little humour around here sometimes is very good medicine. I hope the friendship that we have forged continues in the future. I certainly hope that our paths cross in the future.

I want to wish you the very best of times and the fullest of futures. I can tell you, sir, that you should be proud and you make Canadians very proud. I'm sure you will continue to do that as you spread the qualities and the full spectrum of your talents and skills that Canadians have had the good fortune to experience. I guess the good news here is that Canada's loss will be someone else's gain.

On behalf of the committee and many prime ministers, and indeed the entire country, Mr. Kingsley, that you have served so aptly, I want to sincerely thank you.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[Jean-Pierre Kingsley]

Thank you very much, sir.

I am deeply touched by those words. I can only say to the committee and to you that I've established bonds with parliamentarians through this committee. This was the committee through which I related to Parliament as Chief Electoral Officer, and I've always assigned the highest degree of importance to this and I've always attempted to serve as well as I could. I thank you for that opportunity.

I want to thank Canadians for allowing me to enrich myself as a human being in serving them.

So thank you.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Colleagues, that ends our business for today. I simply want to remind everybody that we have a meeting next Tuesday, February 27, whereby we will discuss decorum in the House. We will be discussing the possibility of submitting a report. As you well know, when we do that sort of business that type of meeting is held in camera.

Is that acceptable to the committee that we have next Tuesday's meeting in camera because we may be discussing a report?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

So next Tuesday we'll meet here. And Thursday, February 28, we have a delegation from the Cayman Islands. The standing orders research team has requested that they meet with the committee here. It will be very informal, in camera.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Chair, can we ask that we visit them there instead?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

That was my first suggestion, and somehow it was denied.

The clerk will obviously get some information to you between now and then. So that's next Thursday, for one hour.

Is there any other business? I see none.

The meeting is adjourned.