Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Sept. 13th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Are there any further comments on that?

We're back to Madam Redman, please.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

We may be straying into an area you are less comfortable with, but I trust you were in the room earlier when my colleague Mr. McGuinty actually quoted some of the statements made by the Prime Minister. I am just wondering, from your perspective, if ratcheting this up and creating this crisis and this absolute necessity, this emergency that we deal with this on the threshold of a by-election, has been helpful or harmful to the whole situation and to the broader Muslim community in Canada.

[Farzana Hassan]

Our whole argument is that there is absolutely no need for this sort of accommodation. It's not required by the Muslims.

My issue is also with setting a precedent for these exceptions. If we set a precedent for this exception, we will be accommodating other exceptions, and then the exceptions won't remain exceptions any more.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

We are out of time on that.

As a clarification from the chair, the accommodation that Madam Redman was talking about, I believe, was the Chief Electoral Officer's ability to accommodate. Your accommodation is suggesting that there is no need, because all women would reveal themselves, since it's not a religious issue.

Thank you very much.

We are still on our second round, which is a five-minute round, please.

Monsieur Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I think that our witnesses have made fine presentations. I thank them for being here. I think we can all forgive them for being somewhat baffled by the interventions of the official opposition, who are suggesting that the problems we're discussing today are the result of legislation they helped to write, and voted for, and approved at the Senate level.

But in order to clarify where Parliament is coming from--and I think clarification is needed, after this morning's testimony by the Chief Electoral Officer--and given that there seems to be a clear consensus among our witnesses and that every party has had a chance to pose some questions, I would like to move a motion. This motion will clearly indicate--

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Excuse me, Mr. Poilievre. Can you confirm that the motion relates to this matter?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Yes, it does. And because it relates to this matter, the rules of notice permit that it be introduced right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Absolutely. I agree.

I'll hear it.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I have a motion here with me. It's meant to signal, very clearly—and this is the first time we have signalled in these terms—the following: that the committee call on the Chief Electoral Officer to use his powers of adaptation to require electors to show their faces before being permitted to vote at voting stations across the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Do you have that written down?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I do. It has been amended in handwriting—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I wonder if I could just take a few minutes to have a look at it so that we could either rule it in or out of order. I'm sorry, witnesses are not allowed to comment. If I rule this motion in order, we're going to move to debate on the motion. So if I could, I'll just take one minute of the committee's time to see if the motion is in order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Colleagues, thank you very much for your patience.

I have consulted with our clerk and analysts. The motion is in order.

Mr. Poilievre can probably correct me, and we'll read the motion again, but it seems to me that we're asking the Chief Electoral Officer to use his adaptation special powers, under section 17 to be more specific, to require that women reveal their faces, that faces are exposed, and that electors are to show their faces at voting stations across the country.

I would remind members that section 17 of the act is within 30 days of an election. So since there are a limited number of elections across the country, I want to clarify that this would not have an effect on electoral processes beyond 30 days, in accordance with section 17.

Now, this is in order, so we will begin our debate.

On a point of order, Monsieur Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, as we had discussed yesterday, this meeting was to adjourn at 12 noon. As you are well aware, some of us have commitments during the lunch break today.

My feeling is that this motion will need to be subject to debate, which will take more than 30 seconds. We're already six minutes late, so I think this should be pushed back to after lunch.

I also want to remind you, Mr. Chair, that we have a commitment from you and the other members of this committee that the afternoon schedule is to prepare the draft report for approximately half an hour, and then we are to switch to the original matter that was to be discussed. Maybe while we are having a break, we should consider pushing this to a new meeting of the committee, which could start tomorrow morning or this evening. For now, anyway, I suggest that we break now, because it's already 12:07.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

On the same point of order—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Let me just clarify. I always like to discuss that.

I did mention at the beginning of our witness time that we would go till 12:15, simply out of courtesy for the witnesses, so that they had their exact hour. I did get some permission from the committee to do that.

Those options are on the table. I do have a couple of hands up here. I suspect they're on points of order, so let's hear them out first, and then we'll see what the committee wants to do.

Monsieur Guimond is next , and then Mr. Lukiwski.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

In my opinion, there are some advantages, and some merit, to Mr. Polievre's motion. However, as a francophone, I would like the motion to be drafted in both official languages. I ask for the committee's unanimous consent to the following: that witnesses be allowed to continue speaking until 12:15 p.m.; that we reconvene at 1:15 p.m., that the typed and translated motion be available at that time in both official languages and that we proceed much like we do in the House, that is on automatic pilot, without considering any dilatory measures or motions until the meeting adjourns at 12:15 p.m. I seek the committee's unanimous consent.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

All right, we have had a request that there be unanimous consent that the witnesses be allowed to finish out the time, which is about eight minutes. Let's just go with that.

Do we have unanimous consent that we just go to the witnesses, which ultimately tables the motion for a few minutes? Unanimous consent is not required to do that, nor does adjourning the meeting require unanimous consent.

Is there unanimous consent to let the witnesses have the next eight minutes? Does anybody disagree?

You have a point of order, Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Before we give our consent, does the request for unanimous consent seek to have the motion deferred until after lunch?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

No, it doesn't. I would expect that will come right at the end of the eight minutes that we're leaving for the witnesses. That's what I expect will happen, so we will go to the.... No?

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

No? Okay, then be clear. Please be clear.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

I will repeat in your language.

That way we continue with the witnesses for the last five minutes--the next five minutes--and the discussion on Mr. Poilievre's motion will be suspended until 1:15 to give me the time to read the motion in both official languages of Canada.

For the next five minutes, because I will leave right now, there will be no other motion, no measure like the automatic pilot we very often do in the House.

I ask unanimous consent for this motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I think that's reasonable. Although I don't want to influence any members, I think that's reasonable. We give the rest of the time today to the witnesses, and then come back at 1:15, when the motion will have been translated. That's reasonable.

Can I accept that, Mr. Poilievre and everybody else? That's very reasonable.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.