Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 13th, 2007

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

And they should be ashamed.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

This is a man who was reading a newspaper halfway through the meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Order, please.

Focus, focus, colleagues. Let's get back to the debate.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I have a point of order.

Why is it, Mr. Chair, that when you speak, the other microphones are on? You have the floor. The other microphones should be turned off, so we can hear you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you, and we'll make that reference to our technicians, that when I have the floor the other microphones are turned off.

Let's stay focused on the subamendment and keep the debate to the subamendment, please.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for calling the members across into order.

So I go on, Chair, making the point that we are the only party willing to have hearings about our own conduct. And if other parties are as convinced of the ethical nature of their ways, then they will support this subamendment.

This subamendment, Chair, calls for all parties to have their financial and electoral practices examined—all of them. That's what we're debating here—a thorough discussion of all of our finances. And we are the only party that is supporting that public examination of our finances.

What have they to hide, Chair? What worries them? Why are they are so vitriolically opposed to having any public scrutiny of how they have managed their own affairs? They argue that it's because they are blameless and there is nothing to examine. Well, if that's the case, then these proposed hearings would be nothing more than an infomercial for the unimpeachable ethical conduct of their parties, if, as they claim, they are as pure as the maiden snow. But in fact they resist and they protest, and they provoke great suspicion as to their cause for such protestation.

Mr. Chair, I might also add that this is not the first time we've seen Elections Canada raise high drama, only to disappoint later on. You'll remember that about a year ago Elections Canada was very concerned about convention delegate fees. Do you remember that, Mr. Chair? Most people don't remember it, but there was this great scandal that all of these conservatives had come together at their Montreal convention and had paid for their own delegation fees and hadn't counted those delegation fees as donations, and as a result they had gone over their limit. This was an “enormous” scandal, a big conspiracy of thousands of party members from across the country conspiring together to come and donate more than they're allowed to out of their own pockets. And the Liberals were up in the House of Commons, and the NDP and everyone was furious, banging fists, that this was the biggest scandal ever. I even heard some Liberals suggest that this was going to bring down the government, that it was such a huge scandal.

At the end of the day, what we learned was that it was a mere disagreement as to whether or not delegate fees should be considered donations or not. We felt they shouldn't; the opposition felt they should. If these were considered donations, then the convention attendees could get some sort of a—

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Not for debate, but for a point of order.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Yes.

As you will note, Mr. Chairman, there are currently six of us seated at this table and the quorum for this committee is seven members. We the members of the opposition parties have put up with this charade since September, but we've decided that enough is enough.

Mr. Chairman, if the Conservatives have nothing to hide, then they will not mind if we proceed to consider the motion duly endorsed by the majority of committee members. The Conservatives' attitude at this time shows contempt for democracy and proves that they have something to hide.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Order.

Monsieur Guimond, please, I don't think we need to have a debate here. If the point of order is for a quorum call, I'll do a quorum call. That's the point of order. There's no need for any further debate on it.

Is that what you're asking for, a quorum call?

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chairman, but let me just explain...

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

That's a simple request. I do see six members at the table. You are not substituting, so we have four Conservative members and one Bloc member.

We do not have quorum, so the meeting is over.