Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 15th, 2007

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

No, that is not the same thing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you very much.

We have finished that round. We did have some requests for what we might call another rapid-question round, but let's take no longer than two minutes, please.

Mr. McGuinty is first, and then Mr. Lemieux.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Monsieur Mayrand and guests, thank you for coming.

I have a couple of snap questions. Today you presented to us here a study of Potential Impacts of Extended Advance Voting on Voter Turnout. How much did this study cost?

[Marc Mayrand]

It was around $18,000.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

It was about $18,000—great.

Do you have confidence in its methodology? Do you have confidence in the authors and their methodology?

[Marc Mayrand]

Yes, because we did pay out--

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

That's important for us to know. It's good value for money, and you have--

[Marc Mayrand]

And I think Mr. Blais is quite reputable in that field.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I'm sure he is.

Do you not think, then, as a result of this investment and as a result of the confidence that we probably all place in this report, that we should actually heed its findings?

I mean, I've read this report, and there's not a single conclusion in this report to indicate that what's being proposed here by the government is going to work. In fact, what we see is that it's going to cost $3.5 million to start this up. It's going to cost $34 million per election, which is a 12% increase overall in costs per election. I would expect the government to be all over this as a value-for-money proposition, for example, but if you go through this page by page, I have marked at least 20 different locations where this report concludes that this proposal is simply not going to work.

Isn't it possible that the elephant in the room here, for Canadians who are watching these proceedings, is the following: that we're not quite sure why voter turnout is down; that perhaps there are larger questions looming about why voter turnout continues to drop; and that a band-aid solution of bringing in a voting day on a Sunday before the Monday, according to this report, is going to have a negligible effect for $36 million?

Shouldn't we, as responsible parliamentarians on all sides of the House, actually heed the findings of the evidence presented here before us today?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

It's a yes or no answer, because we've got two seconds.

[Marc Mayrand]

Voter turnout is very complex in terms of the factors to analyze that influence electors' participation. I think the conclusion of Mr. Blais is that it is likely to increase participation of electors; however, we can't predict how significant the effect will be. I think I'm paraphrasing him. I believe he suggests that the increase may be somewhat marginal.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you.

You have two minutes, please, Monsieur Lemieux.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

First to comment on that, I think there are many factors, as you said. One of the factors is definitely long lineups and congestion at voting stations, and certainly having a second day would have an impact on that.

I did want to raise one concern I have, which has to do with the integrity of the ballot boxes. I noticed in your presentation, on page 8, you talk about perhaps the polling boxes returning to the deputy returning officer's home. My concern is that ballot box integrity is very important. There's a whole process in place to ensure ballot box integrity, whereby it's verified that the box is empty, scrutineers can verify that it's empty, and then it's taped, the day starts, and it's taped at the end of the day, etc.

I also heard in your presentation that you'd like to see—not in its detail—the advance day just before the election day and the election day being together, and perhaps all ballots going into the same box. I've got a real concern with this idea of the ballot boxes going back to the deputy returning officer's home, particularly how it looks to the eyes of Canadians. There are always reports and rumours about things that happen on election day, and certainly in the public's perception, these being in people's homes is a huge cause for concern.

I'm wondering if you have other practical solutions. I'm thinking of one in which you have two separate ballot boxes. You have a ballot box for this advance day, and it's treated like an advance poll ballot box: it's taped, it's sealed, and it goes back to Elections Canada. On election day you've got your election day ballot box at the same poll, but it's a separate box; it goes through a separate verification process, etc. I wonder if you could comment on that.

[Marc Mayrand]

It is something that would have to be considered. Currently our understanding of Bill C-16 is that it's the same ballot box for day one and polling day. It's the DROs who take those boxes overnight. We have put forward some suggestions providing some flexibility to ensure the safety and the keeping of those boxes overnight.

Again, if we were to have separate boxes, it might address part of the problem. I'm not sure it would be the full solution. It might also have an impact on counting the results. It might add delays in counting the results if you had two boxes. Anyway, it is something that would need to be probed in much more detail.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you.

Again, we're having difficulty staying in the two minutes.

You have two minutes, Mr. Paquette.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

You mentioned that there were 2,000 polling stations in churches. Are these located throughout Canada or are they concentrated in conservative ridings? Further to Mr. Preston's comments, I believe this question is valid.

[Marc Mayrand]

This is the situation more or less throughout Canada. We see this more in less urban regions. Churches are the third most common type of station. The most common polling station is the community centre and the second most common is a teaching or educational facility. Churches are the third most common. The first two groups each represent a bit more than 25% of all polling places. Places of worship represent 11% of the country's polling stations.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

You are talking about initial costs of $3.5 million. What are these initial costs?

[Marc Mayrand]

Without getting into too much detail, most of the expense comes from the computer systems. They have to be redeveloped and, of course, tested.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Mr. Godin, one minute, of course.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

So, the $34 million would cover the entire changeover, would it not?

[Marc Mayrand]

No, the $34 million would cover what I call recurrent costs. In other words, the $34 million would basically be used to pay electoral workers.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I see, but that is for the changeover. The $3.5 million is for the computer systems, but in total, every election would cost $34 million more, because there would be an additional day.

[Marc Mayrand]

That is for every election.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I see, thank you.