Evidence of meeting #27 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thanks, Chair.
Where we left off is where I'd like to pick up. I understand the point my colleague is making: If Quebec is making a determination about a national issue, and they have referendum legislation, they'd like to use their own. The other argument, I think, if I'm hearing correctly, is that there is one law for electing federal members of Parliament, and therefore there ought to be one law in terms of a referendum on a national question. Is that correct?
Noon
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
I'm saying that this is much more desirable.
Noon
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Right.
Obviously, the six-month issue is one you're most passionate about, because it's denying some Canadians the right to exercise their franchise. Setting that aside, what are some of the other complications of going with potentially 13 different pieces of legislation on one national question?
Noon
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
On the whole issue of the critical dates for revision, when does revision end? When do the advance polls take place? For example, you try to advertise that in the Ottawa area. You put it in Le Droit, and you get an ad from the Chief Electoral Officer of Ontario and an ad from the Chief Electoral Officer of Quebec, and the two dates are not the same. Everyone's going to vote on the same day. You're hoping that it's going to be the same question. That's the other thing. Is it the same question, exactly the same question, every word? That's number two.
Is the duration of the campaign going to be the same? Is Ontario 30 days? Is Quebec 36? What about New Brunswick, if New Brunswick is next? And what about the other provinces in Atlantic Canada? What about them? When you're advertising in Atlantic Canada, you're advertising in Atlantic Canada. It's difficult to advertise only in New Brunswick. This is what I'm alluding to, if it's a federation.
Noon
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I must say that I like the idea of one piece of legislation that deals with the three different scenarios. Whether we broaden the use of referendums or not, it just makes sense to me. The complications and the differences in the legislation have been pointed out by some. I assume that on things such as dollar limits and timelines, your recommendation would be that if we did one piece of legislation for three scenarios, there should be as much commonality, in terms of these thresholds, as possible.
Noon
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
Yes. The only exception would be for referendum committees. If the committee decided that it still wanted to allow unions and corporations and associations to form committees, I would suggest that you consider that. But they cannot make a contribution to the advertising portion. It's only the advertising portion that you're going to control anyway.
Noon
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
Let them hire staff. The only thing they're going to be able to do is put out advertising. The only thing that works is advertising. That's all that works. If you're going to be doing it and holding meetings among yourselves, it's a lot of fun.
Noon
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
To be fair, if you're going to organize a public event, the more paid staff you have available....
Did you give me a nod, Chair?
Noon
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
We have a great committee member here, so I'll take advantage of him while he's here.
Noon
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
It seems to me that doing them at the same time and allowing for referendums to be done by one piece of legislation, and there'd be similarities.... My concern is about the expenses. If you want to hold a rally, it's a lot easier if you have 15 organizers equipped with BlackBerrys, transportation, and the ability to corral people, because you're actually affecting the airwaves by virtue of wanting a big hit on the media. Conversely, somebody else trying to hold a major rally who doesn't have that kind of infrastructure may only get a trickling of people come out. Therefore they end up getting big media, big coverage. So I'm surprised you think that's the only thing that turns votes.
Noon
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
I think you've come up with a valid argument, sir, as other members have throughout my questioning. It's something the committee would have to look at. Maybe it's better to go with exactly the same scheme for referendum committees as you have for third parties, and as dollar limits--except for access to free time; that I would keep. That would be sufficient inducement to get people to organize themselves around that.
12:05 p.m.
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
I want to make a statement, if the committee will allow me.
When I left office I appeared before this committee, but before that I appeared before the Senate committee. I explained why I was not able to tell them where I was going. Essentially, before Christmas the chairman of the board made me an offer that I accepted, so I resigned. But the meeting could only take place on January 5, when the whole board of the organization could make a decision. This led to some speculation by one or two journalists that I was leaving because Prime Minister Harper had done something or had not done something.
I just want to put it on the record that my decision to leave Elections Canada had absolutely nothing to do with what Prime Minister Harper did or did not do. There was no such consideration at all. After 17 years, enough time had been spent, I had made my contribution, and I had a fantastic offer in my hands. That's all I did: I took advantage of an outstanding offer. It had nothing to do with the Prime Minister, or any other minister, for that matter.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Or this committee...? You didn't mention this committee. I know sometimes you got a bit of a rough ride here.
12:05 p.m.
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
I'll tell you that toward the end of this committee, whether or not I was part of it, there was some rambunctiousness related to it.
12:05 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
I'm here to make the same confession: I've calmed down.
Thank you so much for coming today.
12:05 p.m.
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
Thank you so much for this opportunity to exchange with you. If I can be of further service, please let me know.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
I was just about to ask that, because we're not done this yet. In the next hour there's going to be a bit of an explanation of where we are so far, specifically to some of the newer members of the committee. So we're going to do that next.
Thank you for your time today. We will maybe take you up on asking further questions. You're the one who's done this before, and we're all just trying to fix it. As you said, after 15 years we're finally looking at the legislation, because it's past the three-year “look at it” stage. It's time we did it.
Thank you so much.
I'm going to suspend for a couple of minutes.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
I call the meeting back to order.
As we have discussed, the researchers are going to give us a bit of an options piece as to where we are on this study. Mr. Kingsley added some great stuff for us today, and that's why we wish we'd had him when we were doing the study, but this may actually bring this together a little bit more.
Again, team, we're not looking for an opinion today as to whether we'll carry on with this study. We're trying to bring everybody up to date. Once we've done Mr. Chong's motion on Thursday, we'll know the work of this committee, or at least have a better opinion of where we have to go. So let's not come to an opinion today of where we'll go, but let's just have the researchers make a presentation and we'll ask some questions.
We'll follow about the same format we followed last time. Please indicate if you have a question for the researchers, and we'll let them answer as we go along. That's probably the best way to do it.
We have Michel for only a couple more days--he's taking some more leave to be with his family--but while he's here we'll use his expertise to do some of this.
Michel, the floor is yours.