Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Dec. 16th, 2010

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Ms. Block, when you hire someone, you ask them for references. In response to other questions, you said that you went through the usual procedure, that you looked at his résumé and asked for references. If I understand correctly, no one alerted you to the fact that he had businesses, which could put you in an awkward position. Today, we are talking about a question of privilege, and we can say that you are in an unfortunate predicament. There are even media reports of other allegations and accusations regarding potentially inappropriate behaviour by Mr. Ullyatt when he was not working for your office. As everyone knows, Ms. Hamilton had very close ties to the Conservative Party. We know there was a network. We heard that in the testimony. No one cautioned you against hiring Mr. Ullyatt?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

If I remember correctly--and I would have to go home and look through my files--he provided me with five references. I called all of those references, and he received positive references from all of them.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

You said you contacted five people. I will not ask you for their names, but I imagine they are people who are close to the Conservative Party. That is how it works with every party.

No one told you to be cautious because this man had two companies and that that could put you in an awkward position? It seems to me that people in my party would have sounded the alarm on that. Right now, you are in an embarrassing situation.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

None of the references I called cautioned me on that issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you, Madame DeBellefeuille.

Mr. Mulcair, you have five minutes, please.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm going to repeat my invitation to Madam Block to give priority to Parliament and the institution whose privileges have been breached by staying with us for the full two hours that she was supposed to. I will ask her to answer specifically the question I asked before, because she trailed off about presuming that Ullyatt knew.

Did she or did she not brief Russell Ullyatt on the importance of confidentiality of committee documents, and more specifically that those documents were the property of the committee? Did she give him that instruction personally, yes or no?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

I briefed all my staff on the importance of confidentiality. We had many conversations about it. We had a retreat this summer and talked about confidentiality. Mr. Ullyatt knew full well that those draft reports were confidential.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

I'm going to repeat my question. Did you or did you not brief Mr. Ullyatt on the importance of...? You keep talking about other staff. I want to know if you said that to Mr. Ullyatt.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Mr. Ullyatt was part of those meetings. Yes.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

You briefed him. Who were the other people who were part of those meetings?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

They were Emrys Graefe, my staff in my Saskatoon office, my staff in my Biggar office, and my staff in Rosetown.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you. That's a clear answer to my question.

Mr. Chairman, I'll go back to the decision you want to render on our ability to go into other areas here.

In his sworn testimony before this committee, when I asked Mr. Ullyatt if everything else he did in his office was in accordance with the rules and instructions Mrs. Block had given him, he said, “To the best of my knowledge, yes. Everything else I would have done in her office was within the rules.” So that's a clear answer.

This is going to be important for our work as a committee. We're dealing with one of the most important things we can do in Parliament, which is to protect our ability to work freely as members of Parliament to do the job we've been elected to do. That's what we're trying to do today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

So far.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

You're trying to tell me I can't ask questions about certain practices within Mrs. Block's offices, specifically having to do with mailings, palettes and skids of documents, and a big printing machine. You don't want me to--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Mulcair, I am telling you that you cannot. It is being studied by another committee. It is the Board of Internal Economy. A spokesman for that committee is already in the public saying it's being looked at there. We have members of this committee, in public, saying it's being looked at there.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

The only person I've ever heard say that is you, Mr. Chairman, so I thought those things were supposed to be kept secret. But if you're informing me—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

They are. The spokesman for the board—

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

—that the board is looking at this, then that's your—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Mulcair, I love it when you ask me a question and then talk over me.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

It's okay; you do the same.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

This committee tends to work in a fairly collegial manner for the most part. I don't know what other committees you sit on, other than finance, but on this one we tend to get along pretty well. So just show me the same respect that I'll show you and we'll be able to get through this.

The point I was making is that it is being studied at another committee. That is in the public. You showed Mrs. Block how to Google something and you could do the same. I'm suggesting that committee is better suited to deal with that than this committee, because this committee has a workload that includes looking at a motion of privilege that was sent here by the Speaker.

I will entertain any question that's germane to the privilege motion, so please carry on.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

A point of order, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Yes, Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I'm sorry, I made this a while ago, but it was before you got involved in your discussion.

Mr. Mulcair has made...not the assertion but the implication that you are the only person who has made public that this matter is before the Board of Internal Economy. I think that public statement was actually made by a different member of the Board of Internal Economy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

It was. I am not the spokesman for that board.