Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 25th, 2011

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Just yesterday, Mr. McGuinty incorrectly stated that he'd requested all decisions be presented before the committee. I went back and reviewed his words from just a few days earlier, where he'd said “Provide me with just one example.” The difference between “just one” and “all” is as great a difference as there can be. That's the kind of thing you don't want to report, and I would suggest you probably don't want this in the report either.

So, as I say, I think the hard evidence is there, I think we have to take the fact that it was made at face value and leave things at that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

All right. I have another speaker on the list. This is to Mr. Reid's motion to strike everything from the start and down to the words “the Minister”.

Monsieur Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am listening to my Conservative colleagues nitpick about sentences where there is absolutely no problem. I agree with Mr. Laframboise that the analysts have done a very good job in this report; they have reported the discussions that took place and the testimony we heard. I think it is clear that the Conservatives are systematically putting obstacles in our way.

Mr. Chair, I am concerned about the fact that, if this motion is rejected, we will have 13 minutes left. The report must be submitted to the Speaker of the House of Commons today. What are your intentions in that regard?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

The chair is always at the guidance of the committee.

We have a motion.

Mr. Albrecht....

Mr. Proulx, are you finished?

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Chair, am I on the list?

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I'm expecting an answer from you, sir--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I gave you one. I'm at the guidance of the committee.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

--in the sense that it's obvious that we're not going to reach an agreement between now and one o'clock.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I have greater faith in you than you do apparently, Mr. Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

You plan on reporting to the House at what time today, sir?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

If we finish.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Are we going until 1 p.m.?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

That's what the orders of the day said.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

It was refused to us to sit yesterday afternoon for a couple of hours, and again early this morning for a couple of hours. We're acting in good faith. We wanted to arrive at a conclusion, so I'm anxious to see what we're going to accomplish in the next 14 minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Apparently you're questioning my good faith.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Albrecht.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Chair, they wanted to arrive at a conclusion. Let's be honest. They did arrive at a conclusion long before we even had Minister Oda here. Before we had seen any witness, they had arrived at a conclusion because of the motion that was presented.

Page 8--

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

On a point of order, the motion was tabled after we--

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

--number 34, we're dealing with the amendment to remove the first sentence and we're talking about words like “speculation”, “possible”, “potential”.

Mr. Chair, for those who were at the meeting, I think you can see, in addition to the example that Mr. Reid gave about the rhetorical question about torture, there was another piece of speculation in regard to me. One of the members, Mr. McGuinty, speculated that I was a member of the Mennonite church. I have utmost respect for the Mennonite church. I work very closely with the Mennonite church. I have great friends in the church and many churches.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

He apologized.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

But it isn't in the record. My point is that piece of information isn't in this record. It's not in this report. The same way that that information isn't in this report, this piece of speculative, possible, potential information does not deserve to be in the report.

The really disappointing part about that whole scenario was that the research that was done, either by Mr. McGuinty's staff or himself, or whomever, was actually done on Wikipedia. We all know that Wikipedia is a user-driven resource that is very, very inaccurate. It's disappointing to hear that we brought ministers and witnesses and many others to this table on this issue, and members of the opposition coalition had made up their minds what the outcome would be before the information was actually presented. In fact, during the hearings, I recall distinctly that during much of the time the witnesses were speaking, members on that side were speaking to their staff as much as they were listening to the witnesses. If this is contempt of parliament, that, if anything, was definite contempt of the parliamentary process.

Back to the point of this amendment. I would agree that the first sentence of paragraph 34 be struck from the record.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I have a motion that the first two sentences--I think it's two sentences--from “Some members” through to the word, “KAIROS” be struck from paragraph 34.

[An hon. member]

Could we have a recorded vote?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Sure you can.

(Motion negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings]

It was defeated. At this moment, we'll vote on paragraph 34 as it is written.

(Paragraph 34 agreed to)