Evidence of meeting #30 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marc Mayrand  Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Stéphane Perrault  Senior General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services Directorate, Elections Canada

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

That's roughly one complaint per 100 polling stations.

Now, I'm not trying to minimize the level of complaints—

March 29th, 2012 / 11:50 a.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Really?

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Every single complaint is important. Every single complaint is important, and we want every one of those complaints to be investigated.

My question for Elections Canada is, what is the process? When you receive that complaint, how does Elections Canada follow up? Have each of those complainants been contacted as to what is being done? At the end, is there a response they receive that's in writing? How do you close the loop, if I can use that term, in terms of those complaints that have been lodged?

11:50 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

Very quickly, each and every complaint is acknowledged. An acknowledgement is sent to the complainant, and at the end of the process the complainant is advised of the outcome if there was an investigation or whatever took place. So there is a minimum of two contacts.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

I'm sorry...?

11:50 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

There is a minimum of two contacts with the plaintiff.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

That's through the process of the investigation of the complaint?

11:50 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

Sometimes there may be more if there is an actual investigation taking place. Again, I think we have to be careful. A complaint does not equate to an investigation. I just want to make that distinction once again.

Each and every complaint is acknowledged by Elections Canada, depending on the point of entry in Elections Canada, and it is responded to following whatever review process there is—that could be administrative or sometimes it might warrant a referral to the commissioner—and then it will take its course.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Mr. Lukiwski.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Thank you very much.

Thank you once again, Monsieur Mayrand.

I want to get back, if I can, to the complaints versus contacts, because you'd mentioned there were roughly 40,000 contacts. I suspect most, or many of them at least, came from e-mail-generated form letters from groups like Leadnow and the like. But if there are only 800.... And I'm not trying to minimize it; I concur with my colleague. If we're looking at 800 reasonably founded complaints over roughly 200 ridings, that would mean the average would be about four per riding, but it could mean that one riding had as little as one complaint lodged, or there could be as many as seven complaints in another riding.

But based on the election return.... You've said to your mind the election was still valid, and you signed the writs of election for all of these candidates who were elected. Since there's a court challenge in seven ridings, and we're talking about perhaps only an average of four complaints—in other words, perhaps as few as four examples, even if they were verified—of a voter receiving a vote suppression or misleading phone call trying to get them to go to another voting station or prevent them from voting in itself, what is the level that is required, going back to what David was saying, to overturn a result?

It wouldn't seem to me that if we were talking about only four complaints per riding, even if they were legitimate, that would be enough to overturn an election result. Do you have an opinion on what it would take to actually make you look at or even consider the possibility of overturning an election result?

11:55 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

The responsibility to overturn an election lies with the court, and the court will decide whether—

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

But what is your opinion?

11:55 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

My understanding of the legislation is that there has to be a demonstration that the result of the specific riding election was affected by the irregularities that the complainant has claimed took place.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

This is hypothetical, but based again on the information you have—since there is a court action now occurring in seven ridings—would you be defending the election results if the outcome of a court challenge was actually that there might be evidence here? What would your position be as Elections Canada?

11:55 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

It would be to act as amicus curiae and to provide all the information that the court may need from us in order to assess whether or not an election should stand.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Would you offer an opinion?

11:55 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

So when you're saying right now that you've validated all—

11:55 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

That opinion has to be one of the court.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

I understand the decision has to be the court's, but since you are the Chief Electoral Officer of Canada, I would suspect that courts would want to hear an opinion based on why you validated the results and if you thought the evidence given was sufficient to overturn the results you had already validated.

11:55 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

I would advise the court to use the information it had to determine whether it believed the results had been affected, given the evidence that was presented to the court. That's the test the court has to use. It's up to the court to make that determination.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Thank you.

The assumption then is—and I assume this is factual—that Elections Canada has never in the past or would never in the future recommend that an election result be overturned?

11:55 a.m.

Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada

Marc Mayrand

That's not our role under the statute. If it's a role that parliamentarians want to give to Elections Canada, we can discuss it.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK

Okay. Thank you.

Finally, have you any sense whatsoever—it's an unfair question, but as David said, I'll ask it anyway—of how long the commissioner of elections might be in his current investigation?