Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 29th, 2012

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

There are still a few more minutes left for your round, Mr. Toone, so please take them.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Thank you for coming. It's always a pleasure to speak with you.

We're going to be looking at reduced members' operating budgets, which will be $2,000 a year for the next three years, I believe it is. Is that right?

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

That was part of the initial proposal. It is under review by the board, but that certainly is what the initial idea was.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

It still hasn't been decided, then.

You praised the carry-over in your opening statement, and I think that's quite right. It has an impact. I think it does actually help reduce the pressure to overspend at the end, just for the sake of spending. That's a criticism we hear frequently of governments—that they just try to spend it or lose it.

We're going to be reducing the $2,000. Do you think the carry-over, then, is going to be affected? Do you think members are generally not going to be able to carry over as much as they used to?

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

If the overall office budget is being reduced, I think it would be fair to say that carry-overs would be affected.

If carry-overs were what was left over at the end of the year and the overall amount is being reduced, then I think it's fair to say that depending on the member.... Some members lapse far more than the 5% carry-over and some members less, and some members don't let anything lapse. I don't think we could say at this point what the overall effect would be on the global amount, but I think it would be fair to assume that for some members it would have an effect on the amount that they are carrying over.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Do we have stats on that? I know there is a total amount. Do we have by province what kind of carry-over we're looking at?

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

We do have stats. They are reviewed by the board, and then when the members' individual expenses are tabled, they are publicly disclosed and you can go through and see them. However, the board is apprised of how many members spent this amount and how many members lapsed that amount, so we are made aware of that kind of information.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

We're also looking at another cut, this one to the fund to acquire technology. If I'm not mistaken, it's about $5,000 a year to acquire new equipment for a member's office. That is going to be eliminated. Do we know to what extent that fund has been used in the past? On average, would we say that for MPs' offices that budget had generally been spent completely, or was it often the case that they didn't spend it at all? Do we have any information?

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Yes, about 50% of the available funds were spent in any given year. That's going into effect in the third year, so it's still available this year and next, and then it's in the third year of the phase-in that it will be eliminated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you, Mr. Toone.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Am I out of time already?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

You are. It's amazing how it flies when we have great guests.

Monsieur Lamoureux, you have seven minutes.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to pick up on the flight passes that are given out. This measure is going to take effect this coming fiscal year. Will all MPs be obligated to go through it?

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

That is starting April 1, yes.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

When I was first elected, one of the things I found amazing was that even though I could get a cheaper flight if went online and booked, the problem was that we would book a week or two in advance, and it had to be paid up front, and then we had to wait until the flight was over and get the receipt as proof of being on the plane. They didn't accept the boarding pass, so it made a whole lot more sense just to go through Amex. Even though their prices are relatively good, it seemed to me that it started to cost more through Amex.

Now I hear about this pass that's now going to be obligatory. It's interesting. I was talking to one of my Atlantic colleagues, and he was telling me how wonderful a deal it was and how we'd save money. I checked out the costs of going to Winnipeg, and I didn't find the passes to be cheaper.

To what degree do you look at the options to make sure you're getting the biggest bang for the buck? Is it just a decision that we're all going to flight passes, even if some other option might save us more money?

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

With regard to the flight passes, this was brought as a suggestion to the board. I almost wish we had Mr. Merrifield here with us, because he could give you a very thorough rundown. We did an analysis of the savings that could be realized and determined that it would be cheaper to have members of Parliament go with the flight pass. There are significant reductions in cost. I haven't looked specifically at Winnipeg to Ottawa, but for Regina to Ottawa, going to a flight pass is a significant savings.

As to being reimbursed, the financial department has a system worked out for flight passes. The money is advanced to the member at the time of purchase and then, as flights are taken, they keep track of them to make sure that all the flights are being used so that there isn't a required upfront payment and then a long wait time. As you can imagine, the flight pass would cover a couple of months. They have been very responsive to members to provide that service. It reduces cost without forcing the traveller to lay out all that money up front and have to wait a significant amount of time for repayment.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

The only concern I had is that we were aware of the many ways in which you can acquire a ticket. I'm all for saving money where we can. At least between Ottawa and Winnipeg, I found I could get a much better deal than with the passes.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

It's important for members who book through Amex to be aware of which class they're booking. What we've been told is that Amex has the same types of fares that you see online. You can book a very inflexible ticket. You can book a Tango Plus ticket where you can't even choose your seat, and there are fees for changing. You can book Latitude, which you can cancel at the last minute and get a 100% refund. Then, too, you can book executive class, which has its own benefits.

Sometimes members go online to find a cheaper flight, and they don't realize that Amex is booking them on Latitude when they could find a Tango Plus. There are those types of differences. There is a lack of clarity sometimes when you compare the two, because you might be comparing a higher class from Amex with a lower class online.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

For lack of better words, they have “really cheap” and then they have “next cheap”, and the “next cheap” was the one that Amex was using. Then they have the Latitude and so forth.

Mr. Speaker, who is responsible for the green buses? Does that come under this budget?

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

It comes under the House of Commons budget.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

The other night I was leaving the Hill, and we had the express bus that goes to La Promenade Building. Technically, it is not even allowed to stop at the base of the Hill to let someone out who's going to the Confederation Building.

Who is responsible for giving the buses their instructions? Common sense doesn't necessarily apply. Quite often—and I hear this from colleagues of all political parties—we see clusters. We'll be waiting for a bus, and five minutes later three or four buses will come. It's pretty commonplace. What is done to review what's happening with the buses? If MPs want to talk about it, to whom do we talk?

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

They should talk to staff at the transportation department on the Hill. I know that they try to be very responsive. They have these types of analyses of where members are going and at what time of day, so we know that when there are several votes, they'll be ready for that.

I think the clerk might want to address part of your concern.

[Audrey O'Brien, Clerk of the House of Commons, House of Commons]

The Sergeant-at-Arms, for sins in a previous life, is responsible for buses. To him falls the happy task of trying to keep everyone more or less happy with the schedule of buses.

They have regular reviews of the traffic patterns of the buses and of the usage and how much time it takes to get from one place to another. With respect, Mr. Chairman, to Mr. Lamoureux, one of the managerial challenges that they face is they have to give instructions to bus drivers that are very much framed within health and safety concerns.

Sometimes members are frustrated because they want to be let off somewhere, or it's just easier to take this bus because it's right here and deviate from the route, but in fairness to the bus drivers, they have a very specific route and they're not allowed to improvise on it.

I realize that late at night when there's nobody else on the bus, it leads to the kind of frustration that you might have encountered. Sometimes you get situations in which members want to be let off because it's handier and they have other things to do. We think that in fairness to the bus drivers, it's easier to give them a set route that is going to, we hope, respond to the largest number of people most of the time, but if there are particular irritants.... Members have not been shy about visiting the Sergeant-at-Arms. He's right down beside you every day, right behind you. I might see you down there chatting with him.

Members very often point out that there's some anomaly because of...I don't know, the trends of which committees are meeting a lot in different buildings. The transportation people will adjust. They are very responsive to a trend or an issue that has arisen. Individual incidents are sometimes more difficult to redress.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you very much.

Until we invent the transporter for members of Parliament, we will always find two buses that we don't want sitting out front.

Mr. Albrecht is next.