Evidence of meeting #56 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was boundary.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Let's go ahead and call our meeting to order.
This is the first meeting on redistribution.
I welcome my colleagues and our guests from Newfoundland and Labrador at the end of the table. We're starting in the east and working across apparently. You get to be, if you will, our first guests on redistribution. Take it easy on us. We're going to work a little bit on our process on this as we hear from you today.
11:05 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you very much, Chair. It's a long time since I've testified before a parliamentary committee.
11:05 a.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
11:05 a.m.
An hon. member
I'm not sure the chair is finished.
11:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
I'm always happy to hear from Mr. Harris. Oftentimes I hear from him when I don't want to as well, so it does work.
Here's our process. You're each going to have five minutes to sell your piece on redistribution and then you'll take questions and answers from the members. Hopefully we can put together a report matching what you're asking for on redistribution. It's the committee's role to take the report from the redistribution group and hear your thoughts on it and then send them back a letter with your suggestions in it. That's what we'll do today.
I think we will start with Mr. Harris since he's already started.
Mr. Harris, would you like to start today? You have five minutes to tell us what it is you'd like to see.
11:05 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you very much, Chair.
When you said we were starting in the east, I thought that was my signal to go.
11:05 a.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
Sorry, Jack, I don't mean to interrupt.
I'm just trying to get clarification probably for the benefit of the panellists as well as us. Are we intending to hear all three panellists five minutes each and then start questioning, or are we doing Mr. Harris first for five and then we question him and then move on?
11:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
No. We'll do all and then ask questions of all. Okay?
Mr. Harris, please.
11:05 a.m.
NDP
Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL
Thank you.
As I said, it's a long time since I've testified before a parliamentary committee, so I'm asking you to go easy on me. I can't say I do the same thing to all the witnesses who come before our committees when I sit there where you are. But this is a new process to me as well.
The suggestion and proposal you will find in the letter that I put forward to this committee is actually in support of my colleague from St. John's South—Mount Pearl. The boundary as it exists, or as it's being put in place by the commission, reverts to some of the old boundaries of St. John's East. But for quite some time the boundary between what was St. John's East and St. John's West was further up. When I say further up, I mean the boundary was in the middle of Quidi Vidi Lake. What you see on the large map, all of this east of Freshwater Road, Longs Hill, and down to the waterfront was at one time in St. John's East. It hasn't been for the last 10 or 15 years.
In the time frame that we're talking about, there has developed a community of interest between the communities on both sides of what we call the “Narrows” of St. John's harbour.
If you look at the small map, you'll see Fort Amherst Road on the lower part, and you'll see Outer Battery Road on the north part. Then the Narrows is in between. These groups have developed a community of interest and are working together on a number of projects.
The suggestion from my colleague, which I support, would be to try to keep those two communities in St. John's South—Mount Pearl. To accomplish that, my suggestion is—and now we go back to the larger map—that we put the boundary on Duckworth Street. You can see Duckworth Street, the second street up from St. John's harbour. I've drawn a line there. Going along Duckworth Street, it runs into Signal Hill Road. Signal Hill Road would take in all of the Battery, which is the name of that community there. It would not include a lot of residents on the north side of St. John's harbour, because Duckworth Street is an area of mostly offices and business premises. The courthouse is at the west end of that. On the east end there are a couple of new condominiums, near Cavendish Square and where the Newfoundland hotel is.
There are a number of people living in the Battery, of course. That's the point of Mr. Cleary's proposal.
The proposed boundary that we have comes down Freshwater Road, that large artery you see there, heads over Lemarchant Road and down Barters Hill, and then out into the middle of the harbour. That's what the commission has proposed now.
I'm suggesting they go back to the old boundary, which was Freshwater Road, Longs Hill, and then down to where Church Hill meets Duckworth Street, and then head east and go up Signal Hill Road. That is my proposal, a modest change to what the commission is now proposing. We didn't have an opportunity to comment on this before because this proposal is actually brand new. The first time around, this wasn't part of the proposal. They were leaving the boundary between Mr. Cleary's riding and my riding the same. This is new and we had to respond to it when it came forward.
That's basically it. Thank you.
11:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you, Mr. Harris.
Mr. Cleary, I take it you're going to reinforce what Mr. Harris just said.
We'll let you go next.
11:05 a.m.
NDP
Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
Thank you very much.
I've submitted a written appeal to the commission and I trust that's been submitted to members. I just want to elaborate on the main point of my appeal.
As member of Parliament for St. John's South—Mount Pearl, my appeal has to do specifically with the removal of the Battery and the downtown.
I tell people that I have the most beautiful riding in all of Canada.
11:10 a.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
11:10 a.m.
NDP
Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
One of the most appealing parts of my riding is the Narrows. As Jack said, the Narrows is the historic entrance to St. John's harbour. It's iconic. For anybody who watches that fabulous CBC production, Republic of Doyle, in the opening of the show you see the Narrows. It's just absolutely breathtaking. Most mornings on my Facebook page I put up pictures of the Narrows and the weather looking out towards Ireland.
On one side of the Narrows, you have Cabot Tower, which was built about 100 years ago to commemorate Marconi's first transatlantic message. You have Signal Hill. Then at the bottom of Signal Hill, on that side of the Narrows, you have fishing heritage. There are flakes. There are fishing boats. It's a little fishing village within the city.
On the other side of the Narrows you have Fort Amherst, and that has more of a military history. In World War II, for example, there were bunkers built there. There was a chain put across the Narrows, across the water, to prevent German U-boats from coming in. A couple of U-boats that were caught in the chain nets actually fired torpedoes in through the Narrows.
So it's iconic and there's a real history in the Narrows.
Over the past year a community group has been formed. Actually it's more than a community group. It's called “the Narrows”. On one side you have the Battery community association, and on the other side you have the Fort Amherst community association. So it's spearheaded by two community groups. Then there's also St. John's tourism and provincial and federal representatives. This community-led group takes in probably about a dozen groups. The whole purpose of this Narrows group is to redevelop both sides of the Narrows. On the one side with the military history, all the fortifications that were there are crumbling into the sea. The fishing heritage has seen a number of storms and storm surges in recent years, and it's crumbling into the sea. This group has been formed to enhance the Narrows.
When the boundary originally came out, there was no change in my riding whatsoever. I was surprised to see that there was a change. I have no objection, for example, to Witless Bay and Bay Bulls being included in my riding. I have no problem with that whatsoever. I've also been a part of this community group to enhance the Narrows. If you split that in half between Jack and me, if you split it between two ridings, I believe that will weaken the work that's been done, and an incredible amount of work has been done to date to try to enhance the Narrows. That is the crux of my argument. Don't split it between two ridings. We're not talking about a lot of people in terms of including that. Again I have no objection to Bay Bulls or Witless Bay being included in the riding, but splitting the Narrows in two will split the community in two. I think that would go against the whole boundary mandate. So that's the crux of my argument.
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you very much, Mr. Cleary.
Mr. Simms, go ahead with your piece for today. Welcome.
11:10 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Thank you. It's the first time I've ever been a witness.
My name is Scott Simms, I'm a Leo, I enjoy long walks on the beach.
I've always wanted to do that. Sorry, I know this ain't Match.com.
I do want to talk about the fact that all I have here is a name change, quite frankly. There's a new area that's been included in what will be moved from the south coast into the central part of the island come 2015, and what it is right now, the name is Bay d'Espoir. That's the formal name, but we Newfoundlanders pronounce it Bay Despair. It's Bay d'Espoir–Central–Notre Dame.
The area of Bay d'Espoir is on the south coast. Now Bay d'Espoir represents one town amongst about 12 to 15. Other towns include Harbour Breton, Seal Cove, Pool's Cove, Rencontre East, and several islands.
About 10 to 13 years ago, I'll say, we were set up into certain zones across the province and the zone was called the Coast of Bays. Years ago we always called the area Bay d'Espoir, but it actually excluded many communities. I spoke to mayors in St. Alban's, Milltown, Harbour Breton, and McCallum, and even in the town that bears the name of Bay d'Espoir, and they actually said that Coast of Bays is a far greater description of the entire region. So I'm asking that it be changed from Bay d'Espoir—Central—Notre Dame to Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame.
It's not because I believe that there's too much French in there already. Don't get me wrong. It says that Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame is a far greater description, but I do like Bay d'Espoir—Central—Notre Dame. It does have a ring to it.
So that's my crux.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Great. Thank you all for your presentations today.
We'll start with some questions.
Mr. Lukiwski, are you going first?
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
Briefly and then I'm going to turn it over to my colleague, Mr. Armstrong.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
I noticed in the commission's report—this would be more to Ryan and Jack, I think—specifically, Mr. Cleary, with respect to your arguments, the commission said that they originally had recommended no changes, as you indicated, to your electoral district, but then they said consideration of the submissions received at the public hearings basically caused them to change.
Can you give us a quick overview of what kinds of submissions these were and how many there were? Was there widespread support to change as the commission has indicated?
11:15 a.m.
NDP
Ryan Cleary NDP St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
From my recollection, there were no recommendations. There were no submissions with regard to a change of the eastern part of my riding. It was more to do with Witless Bay and Bay Bulls, which I have no objection to.
As far as I can recall, there wasn't a mention about the extreme east end of the riding. I could be wrong, but I don't remember that.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
Okay, that's all I had.
I'll turn it over to Mr. Armstrong.