Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 12th, 2013

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Yes. It's not just that they'd be dominated by a city. Right now these communities are in a riding that's dominated—about half the riding is the city. In fact, as you'll see on many of the letters from the mayors, if they had their way they'd stay in the Lethbridge riding, which is dominated by a city. But they feel connected to that city; they feel a part of that city. Most of the people in those communities call Lethbridge their city. When it receives funding to fix scenic drives, that helps them.

But Medicine Hat is a city with which they have little or nothing to do. They're saying that if they can't be in a riding that includes their city, they don't want to be in a riding that includes a big city with which they have little to do. They feel they'd be much better represented if they were in a purely rural riding.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

So there are gradations from okay to worst scenarios. The worst scenario is to be.... The best scenario would.... I don't want to put words in your mouth. Tell me the best scenario.

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I think you're right. If I'm going to put words in your mouth, I'll say the best scenario for them would be to change nothing. They love their riding. It makes sense to them. It's a rural-city mix, but it's a rural mix with their city.

That's their preference, but they understand that when you add six ridings something's got to give. As it is, the Lethbridge riding is a rural-city mix. The rural towns in the County of Lethbridge are delighted with it. The city has no trouble with its rural counterparts. They certainly are happy that they didn't split the city in two.

The worst case would be to be in a huge geographical riding that is dominated by a city with which they have nothing to do. Instead of trying to buy something they can't have, they want to buy something they can have. They feel that being included in the Bow River riding is the best option.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

There's about one minute left.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Perhaps my colleague has some questions.

[An hon. member]

No, but thank you.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

In that case, that is all. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Dion, you have seven minutes.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

How many ridings are affected by your change? Is it only your two?

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Go ahead.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Well, there was a change with the Crowfoot riding, under what the commission did. As well, it affected our riding here and it had some impact on Mr. Hillyer's riding as well. What we're proposing—

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Your changes will affect the borders of three ridings.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

The changes right now would affect—the proposal Jim and I have wouldn't be an issue. The only other piece that would be affected would be taking a short, small area below the Red Deer River, which currently sits in my riding and was put into Mr. Sorenson's riding of Crowfoot. I've talked to him about it, and he has no issue about allowing that to come back into the proposed new riding that I've put forward.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

So three ridings are affected, and the three MPs agree.

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Three ridings according to this map, yes.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

If the commission accepted your proposal, it would have to change three ridings, and the numbers would be within the range of 4% or 5% of the quota.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Absolutely.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

This is what is unclear to me: your proposal seems to make so much sense, and is supported so widely, that it's a little bit mysterious that the commission came with its own proposal.

Do you suspect that the commission may object to something you did not mention yet, or that there's an argument the commission will raise that will make its proposal more credible than yours?

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I have difficulty understanding how it could be more credible in terms of what I've already put forward and what my colleague Mr. Hillyer has put forward.

To me, what I've put forward makes total sense. I have a difficult time understanding where the commission came from on their proposal, in particular the last proposal.

[Jim Hillyer, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I don't have a difficult time understanding how they came to that. They don't live where we live. They're dealing with numbers and county lines. They based their decisions on what they heard in the public consultations, which didn't come up with these concerns because they didn't exist under map number one.

I can't guess what their objections might be, but I suspect you're right about how they'll see this: everyone's happy, it doesn't contradict our mandate, it follows our own logic. My belief is that they didn't see that they were dividing these natural tendencies.

If they can solve the problem without a domino effect, or upsetting anyone, I can't see why they would object to it.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

We are shifting Cardston and Warner, and your justification, Mr. Hillyer, in one paragraph is very, very compelling. You say that this town is not our town, this city is not our city; we have no link with it. The MP would focus so much on the city that they may neglect the rural aspect of the riding.

I think it makes sense, and I have no additional questions to ask.

Good luck.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Lukiwski, you wanted back in?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I have just a couple of quick questions.

What's the population of Medicine Hat, and what's the current population of Lethbridge?

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Medicine Hat is about 62,000.