Evidence of meeting #25 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON
But isn't distance what I'm getting at? Isn't that separation of the two functions important from a public confidence standpoint?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
That's probably a very good question, Mr. O'Toole, but I'm going to move on to the next person.
Madam Latendresse, for four minutes.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Côté, thank you for being here today.
My questions have to do with proposed clause 510.1, a new provision that will limit most of the information you will be permitted to disclose. In fact, this provision means that you will have to maintain secrecy on everything that happens in your office. However, there is a list of exceptions, including this one:
(b) information that, in the Commissioner's opinion, is necessary to carry out an investigation.
So you can disclose that kind of information.
Under the current provisions of the bill, do you think you would still be permitted to disclose this information once an investigation is completed?
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Elections Canada
Mr. Chair, as I mentioned in my opening presentation, according to my interpretation and that of the lawyers and legal counsel who advise me, clause 510.1 raises very serious issues about whether, when an investigation is completed, I will be able to disclose the outcome, except to state that the investigation has been concluded and that we have decided not to take any action.
For cases that receive heavy media attention and in which we would like to assure Canadians that we did an investigation and give them an overview of what we discovered, what we did and why we came to those conclusions, unfortunately I have to say that, when my legal advisers and I read clause 510.1 as proposed, we conclude that our capacity to provide a report like that would be extremely limited, if not completely non-existent.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
So you are suggesting that the provision be amended.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you.
My next question concerns the appointment of the next elections commissioner.
Is it true that the Chief Electoral Officer might not be consulted about who is appointed?
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Elections Canada
That is what I saw in the bill.
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Elections Canada
Commenting on this matter is not really my role. However, I found it strange, and I have a lot of difficulty understanding why it was considered a good idea to include a provision like this in the bill.
However, perhaps there are people who are better positioned and better informed than I am who could answer your question.
I was surprised to see that the provision was included.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Another provision stipulates that no former or current employees of Elections Canada can be appointed commissioner. I imagine that you find that a little odd as well. It looks like we are hammering on Elections Canada about the commissioner, which is weird.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you.
Could you also speak generally about the consultation done by the Minister of State? Was your office consulted on the changes to the Canada Elections Act that affect your office? Were you personally consulted?
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Elections Canada
Mr. Chair, I think I have answered this question already. I will repeat that neither I nor the people in my office were consulted by the Minister of State on the provisions in the bill.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
The Chief Electoral Officer and you have made recommendations in the past. Were some of them included in the bill?
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Elections Canada
Generally, I think the Chief Electoral Officer told you what was included.
In my opinion, some proposed amendments are positive, such as the increase of fines in certain situations and the creation of new offences. For example, if someone obstructs our investigations, that would now be an offence. I think it is a very positive change. There is also a new offence for impersonation, passing yourself off as someone else. I think that is a welcome amendment.
I also pointed out in my opening remarks that we also propose introducing an administrative sanction, meaning that the reimbursement on election expenses would be reduced if someone overspends. I think that is a step in the right direction. It's useful.
I think there should be more things like that. As I mentioned, the Canada Elections Act, which is extremely complex, sanctions a lot of offences. The act includes at least 600 sections, and a number of the offences are only regulatory in nature. As a citizen who has respected the Canadian justice system, I do not believe that criminal prosecution should be the only way we handle these offences. There should be other things, like administrative measures that would enable us to resolve matters more quickly and with more predictability. We could then spend more time on files that truly are more important, given the nature of the allegations made or the offences committed.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you, Mr. Côté.
We'll go to Mr. Reid to finish this round. You have four minutes, please.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I've been on this committee for over a decade. We get regular reports from the Chief Electoral Officer. The commissioner of elections tends to come here less frequently.
In terms of how you report, do you publish any independent reports similar to the ones the CEO publishes, reports describing your activities over the past year, what you've been doing? Is anything like that done by you?
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Elections Canada
Last September I issued an annual report, which was the first report issued by the office of the commissioner. That report is out there. It describes our activities and our work. It also contains a certain number of recommendations in terms of the challenges we were facing and we are recommending to the government some of the changes that should be made to allow us to deal more effectively with those challenges.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
So you published that last September. That was the first time an annual report had been put out. But it's your intention to do this on an annual basis from now on?
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Elections Canada
It certainly is my intention. In that respect, I would note that the bill, as it currently reads, provides that it is not the commissioner anymore who would be reporting on these activities; rather, it is the director of public prosecutions who would report on the activities of the commissioner, except for the specifics of investigations, as the bill says.
I think this is regrettable. I think the commissioner of Canada elections, wherever they sit in the organization, should have the ability to make their own report about their activities without any kind of filter anywhere.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Let's see if I understand this right. As it stands now, the Canada Elections Act does not mandate that you produce a report—it's your own initiative—but it doesn't forbid you from doing a report. The new legislation would actually prevent the kind of report you issued last September. Is that correct?
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Elections Canada
The provision in the bill specifies that it is the director of public prosecutions who would report to the Attorney General about the activities of the commissioner.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Is there anything that would make it impossible, in your mind, to amend the bill to permit you to report directly to this committee?
Commissioner of Canada Elections, Elections Canada
I don't know, in terms of machinery of government and parliamentary procedure, whether I should be reporting to this committee or to Parliament. But certainly it seems to me that nothing would prevent this committee or Parliament from amending the bill and making it clear that the commissioner himself or herself has the ability to make a report on his activities.
Whether it goes to this committee, to Parliament at large, or to both houses of Parliament is an issue that—