Evidence of meeting #27 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nations.
A video is available from Parliament.
Director of Human Resources, Lac La Ronge Indian Band
We don't know, because for two years they haven't received them.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
Okay.
Would most of them have health cards?
Director of Human Resources, Lac La Ronge Indian Band
A health card doesn't have an address.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
No, but it does have your name.
Again, having in combination a health card and a letter from the band saying that you live on the reserve qualifies you to vote.
Director of Human Resources, Lac La Ronge Indian Band
No, I don't think so.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
Actually, it does. It's contained in Bill C-23.
Director of Human Resources, Lac La Ronge Indian Band
I thought you had to have one with a driver's licence, with—
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
No. That's an option. If you had a driver's licence, that's all you would need. But if you don't have a driver's licence, you can have—
Director of Human Resources, Lac La Ronge Indian Band
—a picture ID and an address, sorry.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
I guess this is a roundabout way of saying that since I don't see.... Although it may cause some people at the band administration office some extra work, the identification and address really aren't the impediments to voter turnout. I don't know and you mentioned that you don't know what the voter turnout was on your reserve in the last election. In the polling information I have seen, unless I read it incorrectly it looked as though it was roughly 35%.
Mr. Dinsdale, who was here before, said that's in the range. He said that normally reserves across Canada range between 35% and 75%. To me, this means that there have to be lots of other reasons that first nations people aren't engaged in the voting process other than lack of proper ID, because in the last election, even though these provisions weren't in place, vouching was available, as you mentioned. Anyone on your reserve who wished to vote could have had their neighbour vouch for them, so there was no real impediment to voting—certainly not from an identification standpoint.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you, Mr. Lukiwski. Your time has expired.
We'll go to Madame Latendresse for seven minutes.
I should give you a chance to make a short answer and then I'll go to Madame Latendresse.
Director of Human Resources, Lac La Ronge Indian Band
I was just going to make a comment that it probably wouldn't be their neighbour, because the neighbour wouldn't have the proper identification.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I am going to speak to the witnesses in French. You can listen to the simultaneous interpretation of my questions by using the headsets.
I thank both of you for your statements. You work is very important.
Ms. Edwards, I really appreciated how you explained all of the difficulties certain persons encounter to obtain that piece of identification.
Ms. Christiansen, I agree with you entirely that there is a real problem when we place the burden of providing these ID cards on band chiefs. I think that a lot of people have a lot of other things to do aside from producing paperwork to allow people to exercise their franchise.
Certain witnesses who represented homeless people raised this same problem with us. They explained the difficulties raised by the fact that they can no longer resort to vouching. The government gave them the same answer by saying that soup kitchens and missions can provide them with proof. Do we really want to cause soup kitchens and shelters to use their resources and energy to provide ID papers to the thousands of people who use them?
Currently, there is a solution to that problem which is the use of vouchers and the use, at large, of the voter's card. I do not understand why we would make these changes and put more obstacles in the way of potential voters than there are currently.
My question is for Ms. Edwards.
I know that Elections Canada had a contract with the Native Women's Association of Canada regarding civic participation programs that targeted young women particularly. Can you talk to us a bit about that experience? What is your opinion about the fact that this program will not continue under Bill C-23?
In-House Legal Counsel, Director, International Affairs and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
Thanks for the question.
Yes, exactly. Right now NWAC is finalizing.... We have until the end of April to finish a guide that we're developing for young aboriginal women, because as I mentioned we know that will set their voting patterns. So if we can reach them when they're young, they'll continue to vote. But we also know that they do have all these other barriers, such as the ones that we've listed and that have been mentioned.
Although for someone it sounds quite easy to just contact your band office and get the letter, it's a huge challenge for our women. Many of our aboriginal women are poor. As I said, they are moving two to three times a year. They could be fleeing violence. They don't have the finances to go and get ID made.
You know, simple things such as opening a bank account require you to have a specific ID, and many of the women who we work with aren't able to do that. So it's not an easy task. They don't have the capacity to know.... I mean, we can add that to our guidebook, that you can get a letter from your band, but again it's another burden that is being put on aboriginal people to have to come up with an extra chore to be able to vote, when other Canadians don't have that same barrier. We're already facing so many barriers in the existing situation.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Precisely.
As my colleague Mr. Christopherson was saying earlier, why, when it could be so easy for us to do things differently, should we place all of these additional obstacles in the path of a community where it is already difficult to obtain a high electoral participation rate?
The purpose is to encourage people to vote by every possible means. However, I see that this bill goes exactly in the opposite direction.
In-House Legal Counsel, Director, International Affairs and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
To live in a democracy, we want everyone to have a voice and we will do things to facilitate those people, who don't normally have a voice, to have a voice and not erect barriers for them to have even less of a voice. I agree wholeheartedly.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Absolutely.
Ms. Christiansen, do you have anything to add to that?
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
All right.
I also wanted to mention that during the 2011 elections, on the Indian reserve in my riding, I came across Ms. Michèle Audette, the president of the Native Women's Association of Canada. She did a lot of work to help women get to the polls and provide them with the necessary information. I want to pay tribute to that woman. She really went to a lot of trouble to encourage the aboriginal women of Canada to participate. I think that that is extremely important. I want to thank her very much for the work that she does.
Moreover, according to the current Chief Electoral Officer, Mr. Mayrand, as well as Mr. Neufeld, Mr. Kingsley and all of the experts who have appeared, the need to provide a proof of address is what is problematical. On this, witnesses have suggested that we replace the use of vouchers, as is currently the case, by an official declaration by the voter. A person having only one piece of identity and no other document to prove his or her address could then simply sign a declaration affirming that he lives at a given address, and then vote.
According to you, can the elimination of vouching be a reasonable option?
In-House Legal Counsel, Director, International Affairs and Human Rights, Native Women's Association of Canada
Absolutely. I wanted to mention two things.
The first point, you mentioned our president, Michèle Audette. She sends her regards. She's out doing human rights defending with her cape right now, so that's why I'm here in her place. She is very passionate about engaging our people in voting.
We do know actually within aboriginal communities to say that we're not participating or that it wouldn't make a difference is not an accurate statement, because of the fact that out of 633 communities, we know that there are over 120 women chiefs. We know that there are more than 800 women councillors. That's a higher ratio than any government—federal, municipal, provincial, territorial—for representation of women within any party, any level of government. So aboriginal people are engaged in their elections.
I wanted to make that point, and no, I would not see any problem whatsoever with someone giving an attestation or an oath affirming where they live and being able to sign that as a viable option or alternative.
Director of Human Resources, Lac La Ronge Indian Band
I would agree. We just recently had our elections at our first nation level this week, and out of the 6,000 voters there were 3,200. Also our chief, Chief Tammy Cook-Searson, is a female.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Thank you, Madam Latendresse.
Mr. Lamoureux, you have seven minutes, please.