Evidence of meeting #34 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site.) The winning word was clause.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:25 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
You have not convinced each other, but you're complete.
Mr. Scott, go ahead.
11:25 a.m.
NDP
Craig Scott NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON
I want to be as helpful as possible. If there actually is this kind of danger zone, we could continue talking about what it might look like, to clarify, so that it's not a problem.
Without making this proposed amendment to my own amendment—is that possible even? Somebody else would have to do it.
11:25 a.m.
NDP
Craig Scott NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON
Occasionally. If it said “as well as any non-monetary contribution in the form of gifts of goods or professional or commercial services” would that work? That's the language the Chief Electoral Officer used as his examples, “gifts of goods or services”.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
As a modest proposal, how about we take out the word “any”? It would thus read “section 478, as well as non-monetary contributions.”
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Craig Scott NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON
I have a feeling I'm supposed to think of that as extremely clever, and I think it probably is—
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
11:30 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Craig Scott NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON
—but I'm not exactly sure whether that will help us qualify what those non-monetary contributions are.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Well, it certainly makes it a little more precise, doesn't it? I think the language leads to the fact that it's non-monetary.
The way I read this is it's just something that's donated. Let's say someone donates a cooler, or someone donates something that allows the carrying on of a function in a leadership contest. That's just the way I read it.
I mean, we'll be here until the next election if we keep going with trying to define this. I'm just trying to figure out a way of cleaning up the language here to a lesser degree. If we just say “as well as non-monetary contributions”, it's understood by us all what exactly that means: tangible goods.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Craig Scott NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON
Keep in mind that one of the innovations in the government's bill that we're certainly not opposing is the power to request interpretations, guidelines, and opinions from the Chief Electoral Officer. This is the kind of thing that would be subject to such an interpretation, and maybe people with apple pies would clearly not be part of the interpretation.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
This is the same subcommittee that deals with the Ethics Commissioner. Do you remember when the Ethics Commissioner decided that anything that cost $30 was a problem? We kind of thought, you know, we may be easy, but we're not cheap. Thirty dollars was a bit too low as the level at which you had to declare things.
I think this is the danger with this sort of thing. An after the fact ruling could come down as being something like that. In all fairness, though, if I were the CEO and l looked at it and it said “any”, I would say that any means any, and Parliament has spoken. So we would find ourselves getting involved with a problem there.
My own sense also is that if we tried to do...and I think Professor Scott was being very helpful and had a good idea when he said—I wrote it down—in the form of gifts, goods, or services. I know what he's trying to get at, or I think I know what he's trying to get at.
Again, to use a real-life example from the leadership race for the Conservative Party that I was involved in about a decade ago, to my understanding, and I could be wrong on this, Belinda Stronach was flown around the country in one of her family's corporate jets. That would seem to be the kind of thing, I think, that you're trying to get in there.
How you make sure that gets in and not the home-baked apple pie which the nice lady from down the road made to feed the volunteers—
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON
Yes, some date squares.
I don't know how to deal with that situation, or with someone taking care of the kids of people who are out. Do you know what I mean? I don't know what the solution is to that.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Craig Scott NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON
Yes, exactly.
The first point is this is an attempt to be helpful with the problem spotted by the Chief Electoral Officer. I see what's been raised as an obvious issue. At the same time, if we abandon this, we're abandoning all non-monetary contributions, so I'd say we should try to figure something out.
This is my neophyte's first question on procedure. Having started this, can we have it stood?