Evidence of meeting #49 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was crimes.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Okay, but currently, what's the differentiation, if any, between how the rules are applied to senators versus MPs?
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
It doesn't touch on expulsion, so you're asking me a question that has nothing to do with the bill.
Under the law right now, in either house, if you quit before you're expelled, you can hold onto your pension, which is precisely what Lavigne did. This bill would close that loophole. If you're found guilty, whether you're thrown out or not, whether you quit or not, you lose the taxpayer top-up of your pension.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I'm still having trouble with this fundamental piece. There's no difference then at all in terms of how pensions and penalties are dealt with when it comes to senators versus MPs.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
The mechanism for expulsion is different, but that is tangential to this bill. Whether a member is expelled or not doesn't impact the loss of a pension under this bill.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
This bill was if he is found guilty of one of the 19 charges you provide here.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
It's closing the loophole that when they have an appointment with the hangman tomorrow because they are going to be expelled and they quit the night before and they keep their pension, it would remove that.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
11:50 a.m.
NDP
11:50 a.m.
NDP
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
It's already in the law. The removal of pension is already in the law, but there's, some have called it the Lavigne rule, where you resign the night before and you're out of town with your parliamentary pension.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
I'll give it to you. We're not quite to the top of the hour and you're on a good path.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair. I appreciate that.
Once we stayed in that happy place, we were good.
In the summary of the bill, John, and I know you're going to make an amendment, it says “prosecuted by indictment and for which the maximum punishment is imprisonment for not less than two years and when the offence arose out of conduct that in whole or part occurred while the person was a member”, but it doesn't say, “in the course of their duties”.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
I know. I'm open. I've heard this before. I didn't mention it in my notes, but I actually have a little amendment already. I can read it to you right now.
Hold on a second. If you'll indulge me—
11:50 a.m.
NDP