Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Sept. 30th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Were you going to add “in the course of their duties” to that?

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

It's not popping up quickly so I won't belabour it, but I would certainly include something like that so it covers the precinct here.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay, that's good.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the latitude.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'm going to pull this to a close and thank Mr. Williamson.

If you have some of those amendments clearly thought out and they can be given to us as we head towards clause-by-clause study, we surely would like them.

Another question I have, if you don't mind, is whether you are suggesting there be any witnesses on this bill. If there are none, then great and we'll move forward, and if there are, we'll do it, and as I said, the suggested amendments.

Are there any other questions from members on how to wrap up John's testimony today?

Mr. Scott.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Depending on John's answer on whether he has other witnesses, I want to speak to that.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

On the amendments, there are actually some that I already have. It was discovered that there was a difficulty in the English versus the French versions of the bill which will have to be corrected. I do have amendments with respect to cleaning it up. I can advance something to you with respect to the 19 charges. On the 19 charges, all I have right now is the Excel sheet, but we can clean that up.

With respect to witnesses, should you decide to call in people, to be honest, I'm not sure you need to. This is probably a matter for members to decide. However, I would suggest officials from the Nova Scotia government, or the House there.

I would suggest David Wilks, as well, who is my seatmate and a former RCMP officer. He was instrumental in helping to draft the criminal offences that I've included today. David has a very good understanding of the law and its application, and frankly, the seriousness and indictable nature of these crimes, which I think is important to our understanding of what kind of threshold I'm laying out here today. These are serious crimes. When individuals are found guilty, it's a serious matter.

If you want to get a flavour of the public mood on this, I would urge you to invite my former colleagues from the Canadian Taxpayers Federation who have made passing this bill an important measure. They will echo some of what I've said today, but as I said, I think they will give you a sense of the public's opinion about these matters. That might be informative for members to hear.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Chair, in discussion later, I would like to keep the door open to possibly following up on Scott's question on retroactivity, with somebody from the University of Ottawa, for example, a constitutional law person.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Sounds like you have someone in mind.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

It's probably the same person you have in mind.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Could you ask them a question rather than have them come here to ask them the question?

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Quite possibly, yes. I'm open to that.

That's an issue which I think we have a duty to ask about. It touches on the Constitution, and private members' bills aren't vetted as such by the justice department.

There's another possibility. Again, it could be an inquiry, but we are changing the Criminal Code, so I wouldn't mind suggesting that a justice official sign off on whether the wording from the amendment works. It's kind of a technical thing.

I have a feeling that we won't ask for this because I think we're now clear on the philosophy, but possibly a criminal law professor could take us through this connection between committing crimes and there being other punishment flowing from it. I have a feeling that given what John has said about the fact that expulsion already triggers those same consequences and he's now just choosing a different mechanism, that may not be needed. However, the first two I think I probably need.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Okay. We will discuss that under committee business as we step forward on this.

Mr. Williamson, thank you for coming today and sharing this with us. It's been a great hour and a great enlightenment with respect to your bill.

We have a number of reports and other discussions that need to take place. Let's suspend for a couple of minutes while we go in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]