Evidence of meeting #82 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was abroad.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Alexandrine Latendresse NDP Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
I'm going to give the rest of my time to my colleague, Mr. Scott.
Craig Scott NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON
Thank you so much.
Mr. Kingsley, I wanted to just double-check if.... When you talked about the idea of a separate list, I understood you to say that when you've registered once, Elections Canada would keep that, and what you have to do the next time around is apply for a special ballot.
When you gave an answer to my colleague, you used the term s'inscrire. I'm wondering if you're making a distinction between registering and applying for the ballot. To me, it makes sense to say that once you register and there's some kind of separate list that could keep track of you, and you've done it once, what you have to do the next time is apply for the special ballot. You can't just wait for the VIC to come and then vote, which is the current system.
Are you getting my question here? Is there a distinction that you would accept? The registration stays unless the person moves and has to update it, but they do have to reapply each election to vote.
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
The former registration keeps being noted on the list. There's a list of former registrations that facilitates the re-registration of the person when they reapply.
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
If it's the same information, it's automatic.
If they want to change addresses in Canada.... Let's say they move back to Canada for two years. An election is every four years in this country. They may move back, and then they may move back to Washington, D.C., if they get another job offer. They will have changed addresses in Canada, but the system won't have had time to catch up with it. Then they are caught in the process of...if they updated the list while they were in Canada, their address on the register of electors, and that matches, therefore, they're registered.
It starts over again. It satisfies the requirement to register again and makes it easy. It's not as easy as if you're in Canada. That is an important nuance, but it's one I've come to accept as being essential.
NDP
Craig Scott NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON
Yes, so it is a way of continuing the registration, but in a different way. It amounts functionally to the same thing, so that's good to know.
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
Yes. The CEO doesn't write to you at your last address to ask if you're still there. You have to use the initiative to do that.
NDP
Craig Scott NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON
That's right. That's where I would bring up the question of January 1 being when the Americans can re-register each year. I'm wondering why you've chosen 30 days before the writ, especially because even in our system, with a fixed election date, at least the way the act is written, it can be overridden by the prerogative and elections still can be called early, even outside a minority government.
I'm wondering if there's any harm in allowing people to start the registration process as early as possible in a year in which there could be an election. You seem to suggest you're worried about this idea of VICs going to addresses where people have moved, but what are the real-world chances that a VIC being sent to a Mexico City address where somebody's moved away in the last seven months is going to be used by the new Mexican resident to vote in the Canadian election?
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
I can see the validity of that. I'm trying to propose a system that I think is workable. If you did that, then you would have to decide what the best date is to do that annually in light of the move dates of Canadians, because I think you should take that into account. Now, it may not be possible, and I don't think January 1 does it for me. People don't move in December and January in this country. It could possibly be April 1. We don't often hold elections in the winter. We do hold some; I have remembrance of that. But we generally favour the more clement three other seasons.
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
It could be something more than 30 days, and I did say the initiative of the Chief Electoral Officer could be invoked when it's a minority. You might say you can do it only once a year or something, but it's something where a judgment comes in.
When you're the Chief Electoral Officer, and it's a minority government, you're reading the tea leaves like everybody else. But there's a flavour that comes across at a moment in time, and you say, I'd better just get ready a little bit more.
Conservative
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Thank you. It's very interesting.
I have a whole bunch of questions, but very quickly, just on that note, the narrative then, what you're saying, is that this legislation attempts to bring the onus on voting for international citizens to the same degree as it is domestically. What you're saying is that it's just not possible given the ramifications, such as registering to vote at the time the writ is dropped.
I appreciate your input about how to treat the international list, as such, to be updated for every election.
The report you mentioned earlier is from 2005, is that correct, from the 38th general election?
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Yes, and you say:
It is indeed difficult to explain what pressing objective is served by distinguishing between those who have been absent from the country for five years as opposed to six, ten or twenty years.
That's the report you're talking about, but at the base of that is section 3 of the charter, which is satisfied. That's really the base of where you're coming from in those comments.
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
Yes, and there is international experience. The minister was kind enough to highlight it. In Great Britain, I think it's 15 or 20 years. They go way beyond five years.
I'm not saying to do that. I'm saying lift it entirely. Someone may have been outside the country.... I'm thinking of—and it's something this committee brought to my attention at one time—missionaries. Your predecessors, when this was instituted, brought missionaries to my attention. You said that person is still a Canadian, wants to vote—or may want to vote—but because he's been absent from Canada beyond five years, that person cannot vote. We'd like you to do something about that.
This is where we said that if you come back to Canada to visit...because they do that at least every five years—
Liberal
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
That's when we gave that interpretation, which may have been stretching it a bit, but that's what the committee wanted at the time. It's that person that I have in mind. He or she may not be a missionary; he or she may just be an ordinary Canadian who still wants to vote after 25 years.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
This hasn't really been brought up before, and it may be an obscure matter, but I think it's one that should be addressed. I want to look at sections 480 and 490 and how they could possibly be contravened.
Throughout the new process of registering internationally, there are a lot of costs involved: costs for mailing, for processing, maybe costs involved in getting former ID. Section 480 says, “Every person is guilty of an offence who, with the intention of delaying or obstructing the electoral process, contravenes this Act...”, and subsection 490 (a.1) says every person is guilty of an offence who “being a deputy returning officer, knowingly contravenes subsection 174(1)”, which is failure to permit a person to vote.
Do you think there's a barrier, that with all these costs involved you're not permitting people to vote?
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
I don't think so.
I didn't think so when I was running the system. I was asked whether we should provide the stamps for something to come back from India, Bangladesh, the United States, or wherever. I said that people should bear their costs for doing that.
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
The Chief Electoral Officer mails out and that's his cost, but the return is the person's cost. I felt that was—
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
To you, the problem then is the timing and efficiency, and that's a huge reason why the international list exists, obviously, and should be continued.
Former Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual
As a separate entity from the register, to satisfy the ministers....
