Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 26th, 2015

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

There are challenges being on this committee. One of the challenges is following Mr. Christopherson. I'll try anyway, just for the sake of getting through this.

I want to thank everyone for being here because this is very enlightening. I want to go straight to a quote that I have heard time and time again, and I want to go straight to an issue that I've heard of not only on this legislation but others. Dr. Pilon, I think you said it's a solution to a problem that does not exist, or as I like to put it, a solution in search of a problem.

This comes up time and time again. Specifically, I'd like to talk to Dr. Woo who has experience as an international elector. You talked about provisional ballots, that they would to a great extent allow you to exercise your rights and it would eventually be counted. However, I have an alternative. How about we provide a permanent list that puts you on that list and gives you the access whenever the writ is dropped?

[Dr. Joanna Woo]

Yes, that's definitely a lot more convenient. This is what the international register of electors has been up to this point. Obviously I would prefer that, so I don't have to go to the trouble of getting on this list again.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you very much for that. This leads me to Dr. Lee.

Dr. Lee, I really liked your article. I can't dispute a lot of it.

You put a lot of IDs out there: Stats Canada, Aboriginal Affairs, 800,000 cards. I won't go through it because you did as well. There is a whole host of identification. A lot of it is tracked by the federal government, but it is provincial ID for the most part—

[Dr. Ian Lee]

Some.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

—for getting on a plane, getting on a train. I'm going to end with what you say in your article. You say, “contrary to the critics, this research reveals that low income people need significantly more ID”. I agree with that. It's very tough to get welfare.

[Dr. Ian Lee]

People think it's easy. It's very hard.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

I appreciate that. I deal with it every day.

The unsubstantiated, undocumented allegation that significant numbers of Canadians possess no identity cards appears to be a legend. But you also say that, digitally, we are not invisible. That's where we agree.

Here's where our opinions may diverge. You are not invisible to the government when it wants to find you.

[Dr. Ian Lee]

That's right.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

But, sir, this is an election and when the vote is called, the government doesn't come looking for you. You have to go to the ballot box.

[Dr. Ian Lee]

Right.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

There are so many pieces of ID that may be available to people, such as seniors IDs, such as attestations, such as all of this, that it becomes difficult in a short timeframe. We may think five weeks is not a short timeframe, but for people who are not engaged in politics, it's short and it's hard for them to do.

My question is this. One of the things government has done is eliminate the use of the voter information card. It's one of the few federal IDs. Do you not think, in light of this, that would go a long way?

[Dr. Ian Lee]

I have thought about that. I've voted in every federal election since I turned 18. I voted first, I think, in the 1972 or 1974 election. I was always struck, way before this arose, with how loosey-goosey it was, if I could use slang English. They come to the door. “Are you a citizen?” “Yup.” “Do you live here?” “Yup.” “Put your name down; you're a voter.”

They ask for no ID whatsoever, zero identification.

I think of all the other areas of society. I proctor my own exams, as every professor does, I think, or most professors do. We have to proctor our own exams now because we don't get enough money from our provincial governments to hire proctors. We require—and I went and looked at four universities other than my own—you to bring your photo ID into the exam, because I, at least, cannot remember all the names of all the people in my course. I only have 45 in a fourth-year course. So we require photo ID. That's just to write an exam in a university.

I fly to Europe and China all the time, because I teach in both Europe and China. Every country I go to requires a passport. When people say it's very difficult to go abroad without identification.... If you're abroad as a Canadian, you have a passport and there's an address on it on page 4.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

That's true. But here's one of the problems: you can't use that.

[Dr. Ian Lee]

You can use this passport at voting. I've used this at voting. I have brought my passport and voted in the past with it.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

It doesn't have your address.

[Dr. Ian Lee]

It certainly does. It's on page 4. Please, everybody, read your own passport. It's on page 4.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

It can't be used.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

The address cannot be used. You're not an expert.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Just a second—

[Dr. Ian Lee]

I've never been denied presenting my passport. I came into this building with my passport today, by the way.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Okay, but I'd like to get back to the voter information card. If that contains your address and you have other photo ID, don't you think that under your reasoning, under your logic, the voter information card should...?

[Dr. Ian Lee]

I'll put it this way. If the act were amended so that when the enumerators go to the door, they ask you then for primary identification....

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

What if they don't enumerate any more?

[Dr. Ian Lee]

Well, whenever you get put on the list. Whether you go to them or they come to you, you should be producing primary identification to get on the voters list.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

On a lot of this, sir, I don't disagree with you. However, let's go back to what Dr. Pal said about the constitutionality aspect of this. Again, government doesn't come looking for you to vote. We don't have the Australian system of mandatory voting.