Procedure and House Affairs Committee on June 5th, 2018

Evidence of meeting #111 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was identification.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-76

Committee Business

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee Mr. Andrew Lauzon

Scott Jones Deputy Chief, Information Technology Security, Communications Security Establishment

Coty Zachariah National Chairperson, Canadian Federation of Students

Justine De Jaegher Executive Director, Canadian Federation of Students

Jason Besner Director, Cyber Threat Evaluation Centre, Information Technology Security, Communications Security Establishment

Daniel Therrien Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Vihar Joshi Deputy Judge Advocate General, Administrative Law, Canadian Forces

Regan Morris Legal Counsel, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Barbara Bucknell Director, Policy, Parliamentary Affairs and Research, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Ian Lee Associate Professor, Carleton University, As an Individual

Arthur Hamilton Lawyer, Conservative Party of Canada

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

So if someone goes on my Facebook account or the Prime Minister's Facebook account and clicks “like”, engages through social media, or retweets, we've learned over time that that information can be harvested, mined.

If Canadians knew that the information—their opinions about sensitive issues, environmental issues, abortion issues, or any of those types of opinions—could be gathered and collected by political parties—and is collected by political parties—and that the information was then vulnerable to exposure, what do you think the effect would be on Canadians? You're a privacy expert. What effect does that have?

4:50 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Daniel Therrien

I think trust in the electoral system and in the work of political parties would be affected if electors knew that this information was vulnerable to further disclosure.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

What do you mean by “affected”? That's a very neutral term. It could be affected positively.

4:50 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Daniel Therrien

I mean negatively affected.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Okay.

So the conditions you talked about—the rights that we talk about that individuals should have—are around issues like consent, disclosure, access to the information that's been gathered about them, independent oversight, and a limit on the types of information that parties would be able to gather on Canadians.

Have I summarized your list?

4:50 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Daniel Therrien

It's a good summary.

There are 10 generally recognized privacy principles internationally, and you have mentioned about half of them.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Right.

I'm quoting you. You said there is “nothing of substance” in Bill C-76 to raise the bar in terms of privacy for Canadians.

4:50 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Daniel Therrien

The reason I am saying that is that parties have privacy policies currently. All the bill does is to give some publicity to existing privacy policies, and there is nothing in the bill to require any particular content in these privacy policies. So for these reasons, I don't see any enhancements.

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Right. The minister came to committee and said that if parties don't disclose what their policy is....

The policy can say nothing, really. The bill doesn't tell parties what to do about privacy. It just says to tell Canadians somewhere on your website; then the penalty is that we could bar you from elections.

4:55 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Daniel Therrien

Yes, but policies are public already, without this bill.

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

So it's status quo.

4:55 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Daniel Therrien

It is the status quo.

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

It's the status quo.

4:55 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Daniel Therrien

Yes.

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Okay.

With all the threats we've talked about at this committee, with the new powers that big data and social media now have over our elections and influencing our voters, from a privacy perspective why do we need to do this bill?

4:55 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Daniel Therrien

Well, we worked with our colleagues at Elections Canada to suggest certain amendments that I believe are before you.

To summarize, the amendments we recommend are that policies not just be policies defined by political parties. Policies have to be consistent with internationally recognized principles. That's the first point.

The second point is whether or not there should be an obligation for parties to actually comply with the policies—

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Who's going to have oversight over that?

4:55 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Daniel Therrien

—and then there needs to be independent oversight. This means that individuals should, in our view, be able to file a complaint with our office, where we would investigate.

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

To not do this—just to circle back to something you said—would erode the trust in our electoral process.

4:55 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Daniel Therrien

I think so, for the reason that there are no substantive rules currently that prevent parties from using information for any and all purposes. I do not think that is aligned with the wishes and desires of the population.

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, committee members, for switching the order.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you very much.

Mr. Bittle.

June 5th, 2018 / 4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Are there significant differences between PIPEDA and the B.C. privacy legislation?

4:55 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Daniel Therrien

Other than what we are talking about in terms of the principles applying to the institutions subject to these laws, no, there are no meaningful differences.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

In PIPEDA, currently non-profit organizations are exempt. Is that correct?