Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 16th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Good afternoon. Welcome to the 125th meeting of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

Emmanuel Dubourg and Vance Badawey, welcome back.

Martin Shields, welcome to PROC.

In addition to the officials from the Privy Council, Jean-François Morin and Manon Paquet, we have Elections Canada officials with us on very short notice: Anne Lawson, who is the Deputy Chief Electoral Officer, Regulatory Affairs, who's been here many times during the discussions; and Trevor Knight, Senior Counsel, Legal Services.

Thank you both for being here on such short notice. It's amazing. You're always helpful here. I'm sure we'll have some technical questions for you.

In a moment, we will continue with clause-by-clause study on Bill C-76, an act to amend the Canada Elections Act and other acts and to make certain consequential amendments, but first we're going to deal with something regarding clause 331.

Mr. Nater.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Chair, I just want to advise the committee that based on the decisions we made this morning, we will be withdrawing amendments CPC-145 and CPC-189.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Amendments CPC-145 and CPC-189 are withdrawn.

Ms. Lawson, just for curiosity's sake, while people are making their notes, this has nothing to do with anything we're going to debate now, but have we ever had a polling station with more than 10 polling divisions in it?

[Trevor Knight, Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Elections Canada]

It's not very common, but yes, we have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you.

(On clause 191)

We're going to start by having John Nater introduce one of the new Conservative clauses, reference number 10008652.

Can you explain this to us?

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

This basically clarifies accounting procedures after the election has closed in terms of the ballot boxes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

In what way?

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

It's a housekeeping amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

What does it do?

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Basically, each ballot box is closed and then you do the counting. It's just a clarification. When you have multiple polls at a single station, each box gets closed individually and carried off.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Are there any comments from anyone not in the Conservative Party? I'm including the officials.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'm sorry I'm late. Can I get an update on which number we're on?

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

We're on clause 191.

We've also withdrawn amendments CPC-145 and CPC-189 because of decisions we made this morning.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay, CPC-189 is much further down the list. I'm following now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Do the officials have any comment on this proposed amendment?

Mr. Nater, while people are thinking, do you want to say again what this amendment does that's not done already in the act?

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Sure. Basically, when you have multiple ballot boxes or multiple stations at a single location, it just clarifies “Immediately after the close of a polling station”, in respect of “each ballot box”. It's just clarified in that measure. On page 100, line 16, of the actual bill, we're adding that in.

Currently it says:

Immediately after the close of a polling station, an election officer who is assigned to the polling station shall count the votes

We're just saying, at the close of “each ballot box”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

This is a technical amendment, so Elections Canada, feel free to make any comments.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Chair, this is through you to Elections Canada.

First of all, thank you for making yourselves available. Some of these are, obviously, policy debates that we're dealing with as a committee, which we're not asking you or the Privy Council officials to weigh in on. Some of them are just logistical questions. Many of us have been involved in many elections, but not on your side of things, managing the election.

My question on this one, in terms of what John has suggested, is about the practical ability to do what's being proposed under this amendment. Again, I'm not passing judgment as to its merit but its functionality.

Do you understand what's being proposed, and if so, is it practical?

Maybe Mr. Morin wants to comment as well.

[Lieutenant-Commander Jean-François Morin, Senior Policy Advisor, Privy Council Office]

I have a question for Mr. Nater.

I'm sorry. I know it's not usual for witnesses to ask questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Go ahead. He needs the practice.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[LCdr Jean-François Morin]

I need a clarification on the amendment.

Am I correct in understanding that the effect of this amendment would be to require that, in the absence of candidates or representatives, at least two electors attend each ballot box?

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

No, that's the next one, amendment CPC-69.

Why don't I read what it says in the bill now and what is being proposed?

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Yes, go ahead.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Currently, the bill says:

283(1) Immediately after the close of a polling station, an election officer who is assigned to the polling station shall count the votes in the presence of

We're proposing that it read:

283(1) Immediately after the close of a polling station, in respect of each ballot box established at the polling station, an election officer who is assigned to the polling station shall count the votes in the presence of

We are just clarifying that where there is a polling location with multiple polls, each box shall—