Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 17th, 2018

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

It was a backup amendment to clause 227.

[Stephanie Kusie]

All right, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

LIB-34 is withdrawn.

We're going to CPC-111. The vote on this amendment also applies to CPC-115.

Also, if CPC-111 is negatived, then CPC-153 on page 288 cannot be moved, as they are linked by reference.

Again, it's probably an infraction and the next one is the penalty for the infraction. If there's no infraction, you can't have a penalty.

Would the Conservatives present CPC-111.

[Stephanie Kusie]

Again, this is in regard to Professor Turnbull's recommendation. I feel as though we've touched on this in several other areas, but again, as the official opposition, we are trying to provide watertight mechanisms to prevent improper funding of Canadian elections.

This is the implementation of the ongoing segregated bank account and fundraising operations for third parties. I can't see why the government would be opposed to putting in mechanisms to ensure that improper funding of elections will not occur.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Mr. Nater.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Chair, I have a question for our officials. This is a recommendation that Professor Turnbull made fairly strongly when she appeared before the committee. At that time, she was an analyst with the Privy Council Office. I'm curious as to whether you ever had a conversation with Dr. Turnbull about the segregated bank account, and why PCO didn't recommend this when the bill was being drafted.

[LCdr Jean-François Morin]

I have not, personally. I occupied my position at PCO from January 2011 to August 2012, and then more recently from April of this year to now. Sorry, I was not at PCO at the same time as Ms. Turnbull.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

It's unfortunate. Professor Turnbull is an exceptionally smart political scientist who has won awards for a number of books she wrote. She's eminently qualified to make this recommendation, and it's disappointing that it hasn't been adopted, because she made it before this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

She's also eminently non-partisan.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Absolutely.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

David, do you have comments on this?

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I saw in the blues that we should actually call you Lieutenant-Commander Morin. Is that correct?

[LCdr Jean-François Morin]

Yes. I served as a legal officer in the Canadian Armed Forces from August 2012 to April of this year.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

That takes care of the intervening time, so thank you for that.

Mechanically, how would this amendment work? As I understand it, it would force third parties to keep their accounts open between elections, which would be vastly different from how anybody else is handled in a campaign. It's a pretty big burden to ask somebody to spend $500 in bank fees to keep that $500 account open.

Is that a correct assessment of what this would do?

[LCdr Jean-François Morin]

I will not comment on the burden but, of course, the necessity to keep a bank account open would come with fees, yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Do you have any response to that, Mr. Nater?

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I think the big thing is that we want to see every dime that goes into segregated bank accounts accounted for to ensure it comes from domestic Canadian sources, is traceable, audited and so on. This is recommended by senior experienced people in the field. I think that's an appropriate way to go.

Bank fees are bank fees for constituting business. We all pay bank fees on our riding association accounts.

[Stephanie Kusie]

Community associations.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I think it makes sense, and I know the way the vote is going to go, but I think that's some protection of our—

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Have you prejudged the vote?

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I'm thinking it may go a certain way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Ms. Sahota.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Why are candidates' bank accounts closed after the election, and then it's not necessary to open them back up until the writ period? Is it because they have that fallback of the riding associations to handle the money?

[LCdr Jean-François Morin]

Do you mean for candidates?

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Yes, for candidates, or say a new candidate all of a sudden emerged a year before the election. They're not required to open a bank account at all until the writ time.