Evidence of meeting #128 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
But it reports back. The police department is answerable to the mayor's office and the police service board, similar to what we just described with the RCMP.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Yes, I think that if there was any blame, from an administrative perspective, we certainly looked to government to blame many times, and I was on that side of the fence for issues on legislation, but I see where you're going with this.
It's fair to suggest that if the mayor's office or the police commission—in our province, it was police commissions—wanted our police service to respond to something specific in our community, then we took the direction from that police commission.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Okay, but that wasn't on day-to-day issues, and they didn't tell you what to report.... They told you what they wanted to see in terms of reporting back, but not in terms of day-to-day issues.
I guess what I'm getting at.... There's a valid question here to be discussed, but I'm concerned that this is an opportunity to take a swing at the minister and to question his integrity without evidence—ironically enough, using parliamentary privilege, because you're saying it in the committee and not out in the hallways.
It would seem to me that this alternative.... On the one hand, you said that it seems like a technical issue, and maybe it is a technical issue, but on the other hand, potentially there is a broad conspiracy where the Minister of Public Safety presumably notified the acting commissioner of the RCMP, who notified someone else, who notified someone else, who notified someone else, who notified someone else, who notified the person in charge of the website. I'm guessing that person is pretty low in the hierarchy of the RCMP. I doubt the commissioner of the RCMP changes the website.
So you potentially have 10, 20, 100 people involved in this conspiracy, and in Ottawa, as would be the case in Washington or any other capital, those things don't stay secret. Are those the two options, that it was a technical breach or that there is a vast conspiracy between the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the minister's office on this particular issue? I don't see any other option. It's either one or the other. Do you honestly believe that there's a conspiracy?
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
What I believe doesn't matter to this committee.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
What I believe actually happened shouldn't matter to this committee. The facts you uncover should matter to this committee. The evidence you uncover as to exactly how this was allowed to happen is what's important. Do I have suspicions? Yes.
Conservative
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Then what's the suspicion?
You questioned the integrity of the minister. You have these suspicions without any evidence. You now say that your opinion doesn't matter, which it should because you're the one bringing this case forward and you're the one questioning the minister's integrity without any basis.
Clearly there's an issue on privilege, and we all agree. But where is this coming from? What's involved here at the end of the day?
We're here. We want to hear what you think. The Speaker agreed that there is an issue based on your report, based on your concerns to the Speaker. But is it a technical breach, or is it a vast conspiracy? It's probably a technical issue. If you say you have suspicions, what are your suspicions?
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
The committee's responsibility is to find out if the RCMP, the Canadian firearms program people, is responsible—
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Yes, I understand the committee's responsibility. I'm a member of the committee.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Let me finish, and I could answer your question.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
No, no. Mr. Motz, I have only seven minutes, and I'm running out of time. I'll ask it straight out. What is your suspicion?
I know what my role is. We have to find the facts.
What is your suspicion that we should be going to find the facts about? Should I be asking questions about a vast conspiracy involving hundreds of people to change a line on a website, probably contrary to law?
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
It is fair to suggest that the people in the Canadian firearms program are not going to presume anything unless they're directed to do so.
Liberal
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
—handed down from the minister straight to the RCMP commissioner's office.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
No, no, stop. That's not at all what I said.
Conservative
Conservative
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Mr. Motz, I have the floor.
You make these assumptions. You cast these aspersions. You have no evidence. And at the end of the day, you're still suggesting that maybe there's a conspiracy.
I see I'm running out of time.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
Maybe you should go into the hallway and suggest that the minister is involved in these things.
