Evidence of meeting #132 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pps.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Clerk of the House of Commons
Again, I think the determination would have to be made. That is not necessarily something that can be determined immediately. Out of an abundance of caution, I think that there would be some idea of actually co-operating with the leadership of the association.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
Would the parliamentary resources used at such illegitimate meetings constitute inappropriately spent funds, in your opinion?
Clerk of the House of Commons
Again, I think the issue really has to revolve around the idea of whether it was legitimate or illegitimate. Then, when a question like that does come up, I think the circumstances would assist the personnel in how they would conduct the proceeding or the event.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
In regard to the October 30 business of the Canadian NATO Parliamentary Association, I wanted to turn to some specific questions in regard to that.
How many clerks from the House administration were present at that meeting?
Clerk of the House of Commons
I was not informed, so I'm afraid I can't tell you.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
Are you aware how long the clerks remained present, after the lawful chair of the association, Ms. Alleslev, adjourned the meeting?
Clerk of the House of Commons
I suspect most of them who were present probably would have stayed. I would want to have confirmation of that, but that would be my initial response.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
For what purpose did the clerks remain, in your opinion, after the meeting had been adjourned?
Why didn't they just leave after Ms. Alleslev adjourned the meeting?
Clerk of the House of Commons
As part of our practices, there is an understanding that when a meeting is called a decision to adjourn in a meeting assumes consensus. If it is done at the initiative of the chair present and if the consensus is not clear, then the staff may decide to stay, as an appropriate response.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
But by what authority did the clerks remain and so act?
Clerk of the House of Commons
I think the answer I'm giving you suggests that there was, in fact, a belief that the meeting had not been properly adjourned.
November 20th, 2018 / 11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON
This is well outside the relevance of what this committee is looking at. A few of these questions have come forward, but where are we really going on this? This is not relevant to the estimates.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
I think it's very relevant, given that the funds here support parliamentary associations. I think it's very relevant, Mr. Bittle.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
Thank you, Mr. Bagnell.
Monsieur Robert, would you commit to get us that information, once it is determined in terms of the basis of the meeting having been deemed constitutional or not, and therefore, the decisions that you have indicated flow from that decision? Would you be able to report back to us with those determinations, please?
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
It's very much appreciated.
As well, in February, our former committee colleague Mr. Richards asked some questions about the clerk's initiative to rewrite our Standing Orders. Monsieur Robert, at that meeting you gave Mr. Christopherson assurances that this committee—the House procedures committee—would be involved in this project concerning the Standing Orders. Unfortunately, we have yet to hear anything.
What would be your plan for engaging this committee or members of the House of Commons regarding the rewrite of the rules we follow in the House, and can you update us on this project, please?
Clerk of the House of Commons
Yes, certainly.
The purpose of the revision of the rules is basically to make them more accessible to the members. The way they are written now does not actually facilitate that. If, for example, you were to look at the table of contents of the current Standing Orders, it just gives you under each chapter heading the number of the standing order relevant that falls under that chapter. It gives language that obliges the member to search out certain other standing orders where it says “pursuant to” or “pursuant to this”. The idea, again, is that, since our mandate really as an administration is to provide the best support we possibly can to the members, it seemed to me at the time that this would include making the Standing Orders more user-friendly and accessible, similar to a project that has occurred elsewhere.
The initiative was basically mine, but any decision to accept the revisions rests with this committee and rests certainly with the House itself. I'm here as an agent to assist the operations of the House of Commons in the best way I can. Initial contacts were made with the leadership offices of all the major parties to let them know that this undertaking was in process and to assure them that, in undertaking this project, no substantive changes to the rules or Standing Orders are in fact being made. The language is only being simplified and tools are being added to the table of contents, as I've just suggested—subheaders, marginal notes and chapter revisions or groupings—in a way that would facilitate the understanding of the Standing Orders by the members and certainly their staff.
Calgary Midnapore, CPC
Thank you for your answers. I also thank you for being here today.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Speaker and all of your guests.
Just to follow up very quickly on Ms. Kusie's questions to Mr. Robert, I think her specific question was this. Is there an attempt or will there be an attempt to engage PROC in the process that you just described to us?
Clerk of the House of Commons
Absolutely. Again, I undertook this initiative for the benefit of the House, but I have no authority to—
