Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 19th, 2019

[David Christopherson]

If I might change gears, I have some questions too about PPS, which won't come as a surprise. This is my last kick at the cat. After this, I won't be here when this comes up again. I just want to emphasize that I do hope that Mr. Graham and others grab onto this issue and refuse to let go. It is absolutely unacceptable that the guns in Parliament are controlled by the Prime Minister, by the executive branch. That's the structure right now, and it's wrong. It needs to change. I suspect, based on being around here for a while, that it's really not going to happen until there's a minority and somebody puts it on an agenda and says, “You want a deal? Then we go back and do things the right way.”

It breaks my heart to leave here, having spent time on the security committee at Queen's Park, having been a solicitor general, and having been a parliamentarian now for far too long, and then to see this kind of aberration and abuse of the parliamentary system. I say this as the House just voted to deny a member from having their say, based on politics, not on the reality, in my humble opinion. Too many times Parliament is allowing the continuing immigration of power from Parliament to the executive, and it's a struggle to get it back.

That's my last rant on that, and I just hope that in the future it does get changed.

I have one last question, if I may. I'm short on time. I'm just curious on this one; it's just me. I'm curious to know how the Black Rod process is going to work now. Is she or he actually going to have to march all that way, or will it be set up in here as if they had? I'm just curious, being an avid parliamentarian.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

First of all, let me indicate my appreciation for your insistence that members of Parliament continue to insist on the notion that Parliament, and not the executive, is paramount, and that the executive reports to Parliament, not the other way around. As you can imagine, in my role, I consider that fundamentally important.

[David Christopherson]

You do a good job of emphasizing that, too, and I've seen you do it internationally.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Clerk.

[Charles Robert, Clerk of the House of Commons]

Actually, we had a dry run to experiment with the process, and within 20 minutes we were able to bring the Black Rod to the House of Commons and send over to the Senate the contingent from the House that would be part of a royal assent ceremony. We presume that process would be followed for the Speech from the Throne, although we would expect that there would be higher participation on the part of the members.

[David Christopherson]

Touché.

Thanks, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you.

Considering the Board of Internal Economy is going to discuss this soon, and each party here has members on that board, you might want to speak to your member on the board as to what your feelings are.

Now we'll go on to Mr. Bittle, who's sharing his time with Ms. Sahota, I think.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thanks so much.

I have only one topic I'd like to bring up. Mr. Speaker, perhaps this isn't a fair question to you, but you mentioned the constituency office IT pilot. Our office was selected—lucky us—

[Linda Lapointe, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, Lib.]

Me too....

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

—as was Madam Lapointe's. I understand a standardization of services, but MPs' offices aren't necessarily standardized. For example, one service that my office provides is a low-income tax clinic, and we require software from the Canada Revenue Agency to operate that tax clinic. We were initially told, “No, you can't have that.” To my mind, having that is fundamental to what I do and what my office does. We do about 2,000 tax returns a year, so eliminating that service....

The suggestion from IT was to have a second set of computers, which I don't think anyone who came into our office would find acceptable. We received a laptop to try this software. It didn't work, and we sent it back. If this is the case for Government of Canada software—that it cannot be used in the pilot program—I'm worried about what other MPs are going to do with other pieces of software that they deem necessary for the operation of their office.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

You're using Government of Canada software, I presume, that any member can use in their constituency office, provided they can put it on the computer, which IT is saying you can't do.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

They're unable to do it at this point, yes.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I bet they're working on it, but I'm delighted that the head of IT, Stéphan Aubé, is here, because I can see he's dying to give you an explanation.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you.

[Stéphan Aubé, Chief Information Officer, House of Commons]

I'm sorry to disappoint you, Mr. Speaker.

I wasn't aware of the issue, Mr. Bittle. We will take note of it.

Just to clarify, we wouldn't want you to use another set of computers. We feel that you can use the House computers. That being said, the question for us is, will that computer be connected to the House infrastructure? For security reasons, we'll have to determine that, but we shouldn't have any issues in allowing you to use that software on one of the pieces from the House without your having to buy a second PC.

I'll take note of that, and I'll have someone in my group get back to you today, sir. If that's also the case for Madam Lapointe, I'll be proactive in my answer.

[Linda Lapointe]

As you know, in Quebec we have two taxes on income, so we don't do that.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I don't know if Mr. Christopherson would want to have Government of Canada software—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

—with House of Commons.... I mean, you know.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this morning you gave your decision about the incident of racial profiling that occurred on February 4 in one of our parliamentary precinct buildings. As you're aware, there were Black History Month celebrations going on that week, and we had a whole bunch of young people—because that was the theme of Black History Month on the Hill this year—advocating and lobbying different MPs and ministers. It was called Black Voices on the Hill. I understand that the incident was deemed not to be a point of privilege because it did not happen to a member, but you did mention that it was one that you take very seriously and one of great concern.

I was wondering if you could shed a little light as to what you discovered when you looked into the matter and how we can prevent this from happening, because we absolutely want to make sure that these young people feel that this is their place and they do belong here. It's definitely quite an upsetting incident for all who heard about this. We want to make sure that they do feel boundless, and with this incident having occurred, I think they must be feeling quite the opposite right now.

Could you give me some information on that?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

First of all, I would have to say that I would refer you to my ruling. That's the encapsulation of what I'm saying on this topic.

As you understand, of course, the question of what is and what isn't a question of privilege is pretty clear. Strictly speaking, I suppose you could say that there is no way to raise this issue under a point of order or question of privilege, because it's not about the rules and the procedure of the House or an impact upon a member's ability to do the job in the House and so forth. I think, and hope, that everyone would agree, however, that it's an important matter and that it's important that it be dealt with and responded to. That's what I've attempted to do.

I'm going to ask Madam Superintendent to respond concerning the issue.

[Supt Marie-Claude Côté]

Thank you.

I'm truly sorry for what happened. We apologize for what was experienced. Upon learning of the incident, I asked for an immediate investigation and I gave the report of my investigation to the Speaker.

My expectation is for all of my employees to be respectful and professional, and we are looking at how we can improve to ensure that such an incident does not reoccur.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Okay.

Were any measures taken to contact the young people who experienced this incident on the Hill?

[Supt Marie-Claude Côté]

We apologized publicly about this incident in the media.