Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 14th, 2016

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you.

Mr. Christopherson, you have more....

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Oh, don't I always see to? Thank you.

Fridays—I don't know why the government is continuing to natter on about this. The official opposition has made it clear that it's not interested in taking Fridays off, as far as I know. The third party has made it clear that we're not interested in taking Fridays off. I don't know why the government is going on about it. It should be a non-starter.

Regarding the second chamber, I'm like Mr. Graham; I find it a fascinating subject. It tweaked my interest the second I heard it. I didn't know it existed. But I suspect both of us are parliamentary wonks, and we really like the machinery of Parliament and how it works. I have to say that Mr. Reid's comments had some resonance with me too. I'd still be interested in pursuing it more, as an interest.

I'm not sure it's going to end up being anything practical. Therefore, as a precursor to that discussion, I'd want to get an initial report back to see how much time we want to dedicate to it. I'm not sure, based on what Mr. Reid is saying, where the practicality is. But I still continue to find it a fascinating adjustment to the way the Westminster model of parliamentary democracy works. So that's that.

Back to the parking, back to the bus, I want to thank Madame Vandenbeld for commenting. You can only assume you're speaking for someone else so far, and then someone else has to speak. So I'm glad to hear that, because it's an issue.

I want to finish my thought, because I don't think I finished my thought on that meeting last night. My point was that I got out in time to catch one of the last buses. It was here at Centre Block. It was just after 8:00 p.m. and my office is, of course, down in the Justice Building. But it's more to the fact that everybody else who was in the room, regardless of what their next move was, had to get to the parameters of the parliamentary precinct on foot.

Again, if they were able-bodied and bundled up for the weather, fine. But if not, or if there were any other concerns—security, etc., because it was dark—they were just kind of left out in the cold. It seems to me that if there's real....

I grant you, it was not committee business. It wasn't House. It was caucus business. We were doing briefings on a matter. We had staff and members there. Nonetheless, it was legitimate parliamentary business. It was here in Centre Block. In fact, it was just in room 112 downstairs, and it was just last night. It's a perfect example of when people, members and staff who work here, were working until 9 o'clock at night, which is not unusual, as everyone knows, yet there was no availability.

Again, when I was talking about the efficiencies, I didn't mention the fact that it used to be fairly easy to get from one committee meeting to the next—number one, because they weren't so far apart physically, because of the locations that both Mr. Bosc and I have mentioned; but also, because of the regularity of the buses. I could pretty much assume that, if I had to talk to Mr. Chan about something, I had time to run over, have a brief chat with him to finish off something in this meeting, grab my staffer, and head out the door; and I knew I needed to wait only a couple of minutes and I could get on a bus and get to the next meeting, even if it was way over on Wellington Street or on Queen Street. That falls apart when I get to the part where I'm running out the door and waiting for a bus for 10 of the 15 minutes that I have to get from one committee to the next. I still find that unresolved.

I'm just a little out of order. I apologize. I made some very quick notes.

I just wanted to mention this, too. Mr. Reid had mentioned about moving a member to Centre Block, and used one of our former colleagues as an example. That is all fair enough, all to the point, but that doesn't speak to somebody who is temporarily disabled—for example, who breaks a leg. I have a knee from an old judo injury that every now and then flares up, and I have a heck of a time getting around. But it's a minor thing. It's only around for maybe a week or two, and then it clears up. We're not going to move me to Centre Block.

I find that fine when we have a permanent situation, but doesn't work on a temporary basis. With a disability, whether it's permanent or temporary, when it's affecting you, it's real. I wanted to say that.

I wasn't clear, Mr. Bosc, on the staff. I hope I'm not opening a can of worms. Or if I am, I'm going to make sure I stay on top of it, to keep it fixed. Staff are on the buses, as they should be. My staffer, Tyler, gets on the bus all the time. I know that there's House of Commons staff too; I see them early in the morning coming from the parking lots.

I think about those very folks in the morning, who have the bus service there; the concept of the employer, Parliament, providing that service is there, but it's not there at the other end of the day, if they happen to have to stay late. That still leaves me with a bit of a question.

May we have your thoughts on that?

[Marc Bosc]

I'll try to address most of the points you've raised. I think Benoit has something you will find interesting.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay, great.

[Benoit Giroux]

You mentioned special events. We would accommodate a request to provide the service, if there were special caucus meetings or something like that. We've done it. We get requests from the whip's office, usually. We would coordinate with the whip's office and we would provide such types of services for official parliamentary business.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

May I respond to that, Chair?

Thank you very much. This is what we want. I appreciate it very much, but here's the thing: sometimes it's not a formal meeting of caucus. It's not unusual for me in my capacity and for our caucus to have to meet with our House leader and whip. Many times it's in that same timeframe. After everything is done, we'll all gather in the House leader's office, and we're there until 8:30 or nine o'clock. We have staff—I don't go very far without Tyler—and there are support staff.

I don't know whether you would call that special enough to call up a bus. Even I am asking whether you would call up a bus and a driver for five or six people. Yet those five or six people are doing legitimate parliamentary work, they're here in Centre Block, it's late at night, and they don't have access to the bus. If they're a support staffer whose car is parked far away, they have to walk even further than I do, because I'm an MP and I get a privileged spot.

It's not so much about me in that case. There's this element of unfairness in terms of the infrastructure. I know it costs money, but the service used to be there and the principle of making sure that you could move people, whether they're members or staff. Let's not differentiate; they're people on the Hill moving around.

Now we have a bigger area, committee meetings are further apart, the service is less frequent, and it's cut off earlier than it used to be.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'm still left unsatisfied, I have to tell you, with this whole thing. I realize that at the end of the day it's a political question. If Parliament says to you, we want more fulsome service and here are the bucks to pay for it, you'd be glad to design us the most efficient system, I have no doubt. We have to work together here. Give us the good rationale for it, shore up a couple of things, and then we can fight it on the other side.

To be fair, I think this government is open-minded in a whole host of areas in which before, the doors were slammed shut, locked, bolted, and all but welded closed. I want to take advantage of this, so that we're not just hitting some of the bright, shiny things around here, but some of the infrastructure stuff that has been damaged by too much austerity, in my opinion. This would be one of those areas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you, David.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Again, I don't know whether to give this some life; I haven't heard too much from colleagues as to whether they support me. If there's not too much more—

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you. That's it.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Am I at seven minutes, really?

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Your three-minute round is at eight minutes and 45 seconds at the moment.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I already did the three-minute round. I thought we were in the seven-minute round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Does Benoît have anything?

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

That's okay. We're going to be here for over half an hour. I have lots of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Does anyone want to comment before we go to the list?

[Marc Bosc]

I'll just say, very briefly, we've heard you, Mr. Christopherson.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Marc Bosc]

The issue of finding the right balance between costs, personnel, and service levels is always a difficult thing. Obviously, in your opinion we're not in the right place. We've understood that, we've heard it, and we'll take it away with us.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Chair, with your indulgence, I'll make one last statement, then I'll back off this, because it may end it, actually.

What I want to know is whether there's any support around the table for some of this. If there is, then maybe we should ask for a report, something so that it doesn't go away, something to give us a focus. I'm at the point now that I've had my opportunity to have my say and my rant, and I don't feel that I've been shut down. If I'm the only one who really sees this as a cause célèbre, I'm quite prepared to back off, believing I've done my bit, and I'm prepared to leave it at that, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Okay. Thank you.

We're at 10 minutes for your three-minute round now. Most of the members are on the list, so they can comment on your question.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Am I on the list?