Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 10th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

I'm going to suspend. We have our witness here in a couple of minutes, and we'll continue this discussion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

I'd like to welcome Deb Deller, the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

Thank you very much for taking the time to speak to us via video conference. I know you're quite busy there.

You may make an opening statement, and then we'll have a round of questioning from the three parties present at the table here.

[Deborah Deller, Clerk of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, Legislative Assembly of Ontario]

My statement will be fairly brief. I'm not sure how much our experience here at the Ontario Legislative Assembly can help you.

In and around 2008, we had a committee that was having similar discussions to yours around how to improve work-life balance for MPPs. I will say I think it was clear through the deliberations of that committee that the job that you folks do is by its very nature not particularly family friendly. There are challenges that are different, depending on whether you're an in-town member, for example, or an out-of-town member, and whether you have families where your children are school-aged or younger than that.

I think it is quite a difficult subject to kind of come to terms with. I think what we found, too, was that there really isn't any kind of cookie-cutter approach that could be applied that would solve the problem for all members. Every member has a different situation. What we at the Legislative Assembly, in terms of the administration, have tried to do is to offer whatever assistance and service we can to try to improve that for members.

That being said, I will give you a little bit of commentary on what kinds of procedures we have in place and what kind of services are available to members in an attempt to try to improve work-life balance. I can start with the administrative or physical plant area that you're considering. I've looked at the questions you've provided me, and I can tell you that we have an employee assistance program at the Ontario Legislature. It's available to all employees and it's available to the members as well. That program will provide individuals with financial advisers, elder care resources, mental health counselling referrals, and in some instances child care referrals.

We are corporate members of an organization called Kids and Company. That organization provides child care options that can be tailored to suit specific needs. This is particularly beneficial to members, or would be particularly beneficial to members; it provides full-time and part-time child care. There is an emergency child care backup service. There's a nanny placement service. There is extended child care for hours outside the regular nine to five. There are some summer programs that are offered and, again, this organization also provides some elder care.

Having said that, it is a service that is available to all members and all staff. We have found, though, that there is very little uptake in that service. There is a day care that is in the Queen's Park complex. It is not in the legislative building; it's two buildings east of us. It is a day care that is privately run. The Legislative Assembly has no involvement in the operation of that day care, but it is available to members and staff.

In terms of the physical plant, we have over the last several years converted all of our washrooms to make them family friendly. They all, including the male washrooms, have change tables for babies. There are highchairs in the dining room. We have a quiet room that's really intended for meditation and religious rites. Then, in terms of the members' allowances, there is an allowance that is provided for family trips between their residence and Queen's Park.

I should probably add here that there is a very tolerant legislative staff who sometimes get pressed into service for short periods of time when a member might have his or her child in attendance and has to run to the House for a vote. We also provide lots of children's programs, March break programs, tour programs, and that kind of thing that members' children are certainly allowed to avail themselves of.

In terms of our procedure or our schedule, in 2008 the House hours were changed and the calendar was changed somewhat. Our calendar currently sees the House sitting from the Tuesday following Family Day, which is the third Tuesday in February, to the first Thursday in June, except this year where they've extended it to the second Thursday in June, then from the Monday after Labour Day in September to the second Thursday in December.

The sitting schedule was changed in 2008, so we currently sit four days a week, Monday through Thursday. On Monday we start at 10:30 in the morning going right into question period. The House meets until roughly noon. We come back then at 1 p.m. and sit through until 6 p.m. On Tuesday and Wednesday, the House commences at 9 o'clock in the morning. We sit until 10:15 a.m., break for a short 15 minutes, and come back for question period until roughly noon. Then the House reconvenes again at 3 p.m., again until 6 p.m. Thursday it is 9 a.m. until noon, and then 1 p.m. to 6 p.m. for private members' business.

The morning meetings that we now have replaced what was probably an average of two meetings in the evening every week, and that was the discussion about whether it was more family friendly to sit more regular hours. I will say that the reviews on that have been mixed. I think it's still the subject of debate. I think family-friendly hours mean something entirely different to an out-of-town member than to an in-town member.

On your list of things to talk about, you also had voting. Our voting is much like yours. It's either a voice vote or a recorded division. A recorded division always takes place immediately or it can be deferred by any whip of any party to the next sessional day, so we have a proceeding on each sessional day that is called deferred votes. Any votes held over from the previous day will be taken up at that point.

Members must be in the chamber to vote, and in committees the votes occur very similarly. They are immediate, although any member can ask for a 20-minute waiting period before the vote is taken.

In terms of technology, probably our experience hasn't been particularly great. We haven't leveraged technology to the fullest extent that we maybe could. We are currently working on a mobile strategy, which we hope will allow greater access to parliamentary documents from members' tablets and phones. Members currently do have access to the Assembly's network from home or from their constituency offices via VPN, and our broadcast and web streaming of House proceedings allows offsite monitoring of the business of the House.

Last, you also had some discussions about alternate debating chambers, and I'm assuming by that you mean the Federation Chamber in Australia and Westminster Hall in the U.K. I don't have much to add on that except we do not have an alternate debating chamber. It has been discussed from time to time in legislative committee, but so far the members haven't really settled on a particular usefulness of that idea.

That's all I have by way of presentation. I'm happy to answer questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you very much. We appreciate your taking the time.

We'll start with Ms. Vandenbeld.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you very much for touching on most of the issues in your presentation that we've been addressing in this committee.

I'd like to talk a little bit about the hours and the changes that were made in 2008. You noted that was when it went to a four-day week. I just want a clarification. Is the period on Thursday afternoon from 1 p.m. to 6 p.m. specifically dedicated to private members' business?

[Deborah Deller]

We did not go to a four-day week in 2008; we'd previously had a four-day week. In 2008 the calendar changed somewhat to create morning sittings as opposed to evening sittings.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Okay.

[Deborah Deller]

To answer your specific question, Thursday afternoon private members' business commences right after routine proceedings, which start at 1 p.m. and usually last about half an hour. We do three items of private members' business on Thursday afternoon. That lasts two and a half hours. There is then a possibility of government business occurring after private members' business. Private members' business usually ends sometime between 4:30 p.m. and 5 p.m. on Thursday, and then we move into government business.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Okay.

With the change in the hours, what was the impact on the people who had families?

I'd also still like to go back to the fact that it's four days. Have you found that, since doing that, more women have run and been successful? Has the number of women gone up because of that?

[Deborah Deller]

We've seen an increase in the number of members in our legislature in the last two elections. I don't think, though, I can point to the reason for that, specifically.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You mentioned that there's very little uptake on the child care provisions. Is that because there aren't that many members with children? Or are there quite a few?

[Deborah Deller]

I think there are quite a few members with children. I do think, though, that for most of them, they have already made their own arrangements. Many of them, particularly if their children are school-aged, don't bring their children to Toronto with them regularly, so their child care issues are in the riding. I think most of them have already made arrangements that satisfy them.

The uptake we could see would potentially be around emergency child care or last-minute arrangements that somebody might need to make in a pinch.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I also notice that question period is earlier in the day. What was the reason for that?

[Deborah Deller]

There was a desire, I think particularly on the part of the government, to have a more specified time for question period. Previously it followed routine proceedings, and routine proceedings could take anywhere from 40 minutes to an hour and a half, so there was a little bit of uncertainty about when question period would start and end. There was a desire on the part of particularly the government members to have more certainty about that. In order to do that, it had to be separated from routine proceedings. It was made a stand-alone proceeding and moved to the morning.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Do you find it makes members' time more efficient by having question period early in the day?

[Deborah Deller]

I know that everybody's day starts earlier. Whether or not it's more efficient, that's probably something you'd have to ask members.

Again, members who have different roles in the House have a different experience. I think probably for cabinet ministers it's good for them. By noon their responsibility in the House, unless they have legislation that's related to their ministry, is done. They can get on with the business of their ministry.

On the other hand, for the opposition, for some of those members it's the same situation. If they have things to do in the afternoon, their afternoon can be largely free. At the same time, it does require a much earlier start time for things like question period and the committees that each caucus has.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

So in fact it's the predictability of the timing that's more important than the specific time of the day.

[Deborah Deller]

Whether it's more important or not, I can't say, but that was what led to the change.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

In terms of the timing of votes, you mentioned that the votes can be deferred to the next day. How often are votes happening spontaneously, where committees have to be suspended and people's schedules are interrupted, or particularly votes that are late in the day?

[Deborah Deller]

We very rarely anymore have a vote that actually occurs spontaneously. There are some votes that cannot be deferred—on an adjournment motion, for example—but most votes can, and they almost always are.

That said, we typically have one or two votes during deferred votes after question period on any given day. In very rare circumstances, we might have as many as four.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

And that gives a measure of predictability, in terms of the timing of votes, for the purposes of members scheduling their day?

[Deborah Deller]

Absolutely.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

And you've found that's been a positive change?

[Deborah Deller]

I think it was positive for the members. As you say, it gives them some predictability.

I should say that the votes on private members' business are not deferrable, so those votes always occur on Thursday afternoon.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

All of the votes are on Thursday afternoon for all the—