Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 10th, 2016

[Deborah Deller]

No, none.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Okay.

In terms of the legislative calendar—I don't have it in front of me, I do apologize—and the sitting weeks, blocks of sitting weeks, on average do you sit for two weeks straight, then a constituency week? Or is it three? Is there a set pattern?

[Deborah Deller]

In 2008 we actually used the House of Commons model to have more constituency weeks and then fewer sitting weeks in a block. It is roughly three or four weeks, and then a week's break, another three or four weeks, and then a week's break. Every now and then, for example this year, the calendar doesn't work particularly well because there are certain specific weeks, like March break week, Easter week, that kind of thing. I think this spring we ran into a situation where the House would have been sitting for seven weeks straight, and then would have a week off, and then a week on, and then another week off. By motion the House made an amendment to the calendar to alter that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Just on a point of order, we don't have any off weeks or break weeks. We just have constituency weeks here.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Deborah Deller]

Constituency weeks: I know better than anyone that constituency weeks are not exactly holidays.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

It was a suggestion as well.

I guess I only have a few seconds left.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Yes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Then I will say thank you very much for your comments. I do appreciate them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Next up is Mr. Christopherson, your old friend.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Deb, it's good to see you again.

[Deborah Deller]

It's good to see you.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It's been a while.

I'm just going to jump into a couple of things here and pick up on Jamie's last question. We had a long-time staffer come in, a veteran, who talked about how he thought the three weeks worked best in terms of the demeanour of politicians, the demeanour of the place, the tone and everything.

I've taken into account the variation in the way you do it now at Queen's Park. The recommendation was that less than three and we're not as efficient, more than three and we start to get into some tensions just being together that long, given the things we do. Do you have any thoughts on that, Deb?

[Deborah Deller]

I think it's a valid point. I think what I've noticed is that since we've had more constituency weeks built into the calendar in fact there is this kind of cooling-off period that occurs every now and then. Everybody goes away, finds out what's happening in the constituency and what's really important in the job they do, and then they come back ready to get the business of the House.

I think in that respect, yes, it's made an improvement in the overall climate of the legislature. On the occasion when we've had only one or two weeks in between constituency weeks, I think it's true that it's not a very productive period of time. There isn't enough time for committees to get really anything of any value done.

So I'm inclined to agree that a three-week block of sitting time is probably minimal, and I would say you don't probably want to go past seven weeks.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Seven? We're nowhere near seven. My goodness.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It reminds me of my mom's saying, which was, “Don't go away mad, just go away.”

Moving on, another issue that came up, Deb, was the number of points. You may recall that back in the day—I think you were deputy clerk at the time—we brought in the point system. We adopted the system that's here. We transported that to Queen's Park, and I understand it's working well. One of the issues that has come up—and it's one that stays with me, again, just from having been around so long—is the number of members who are maybe not bringing their family here as often as they would like because of the politics around the reporting mechanism.

Again, you will recall that back in the day we moved to the point system because there was an inherent unfairness in reporting dollar values. Howie Hampton, who had to come from Rainy River, spent a lot more money going to the capital than I did when I was an hour or so down the road from Toronto. We moved to that point system, but now what we're finding is that especially younger members—they're getting younger—with a number of kids are worried about the politics of that reporting mechanism.

The suggestion was made about whether there is some way we can modify the point system, not in any way to prevent the transparency that's there now, but so there isn't this standout number that one of my counterparts with three or four kids is going to generate. Denise is coming up in June, and I think it's the first time this year she's had a chance to come up, but that's one or two points over the course of the year. It hardly even gets noticed, but if I had three kids, that one trip alone.... Also, the younger your kids are, the more you want them to be with you to experience it.

Anyway, there are two points. One, do you have this issue? Has it come up at all since the point system has been in place at Queen's Park? Second, do you have any thoughts that come to your mind as to how that can be reported in a way that doesn't make it stand out for the member but the public still doesn't lose their right to transparency and accountability?

[Deborah Deller]

It's not something that has come up either at the Board of Internal Economy or with me privately with members. It may be that the way we report it, which is sort of in aggregate, so you can't really see individual trips, might be the reason why it's not as much of an issue here. I don't know.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Well, get ready, because you're probably not quite caught up to the full disclosure pattern we're into, but if you're not there yet, it's coming. Take that with you.

By the way, it's so great to see you again. It really is. It has been a long time. I was Deputy Speaker for a year as part of the 13 years I was there, and I was a House leader, so we worked together very closely. It's great to see a long-time friend.

The last point would be, again, the presentations from staff talking about their kids and their participation, and how much it meant to them as a staff member to be able to bring their children here. We have gone in the opposite direction over the last while. Stoffer's no longer here to give us the all-party party, and “Hilloween” is gone, although there's some semblance of it. But it's not like it used to be.

It sounds like it's still going full steam ahead at Queen's Park. I wondered if you would either recap or elaborate on that for us.

[Deborah Deller]

I'm a good case in point, I think. For me, too, the job has not been particularly family friendly. When my kids were little, I had long hours and spent long days away from them—I missed my son's first birthday, in fact—but they also had the benefit of having some experiences that other kids just didn't get. They were frequently at this building and got to know it and the people in it very well. They still talk about their experiences in those days.

Just yesterday I ran into one of our members who has a little girl who's about two. She's very comfortable here. She and I had a conversation. I think there was a time when she was afraid of the black robe, but she's gotten used to that now. She too is very used to being here. You will remember that when Chris Stockwell was the Speaker, he had two young children, and they used to play ball hockey in the hallway right outside the Speaker's apartment on the third floor.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I have pictures of my daughter dribbling a basketball down the hallways.

[Deborah Deller]

Not much has changed. We make a real effort to welcome the children of members and the children of staff. As I say, there are certain programs—the March break program, for example, which we make available to the public—that we make available particularly to the children of staff and members. They come in, they make paper maces, they do scavenger hunts and all kinds of things.

We also have some colouring books about the building—crayons, connect the dots, that kind of thing—so that if a staffer's child is there visiting, or a member's child, we have things they can use to help them keep busy.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Throw that in front of some of the members sometimes, too.

Deb, thanks so much. I really enjoyed discussing this. It was great to see you again. Take care.

[Deborah Deller]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Now we'll move on to Mr. Graham.