Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 7th, 2017

[Supt Mike O'Beirne]

Thank you, sir.

I think you have brought up quite a few points, and if I may, I'll try to address each one.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[Supt Mike O'Beirne]

I do believe that while there are some linkages, there are some aspects that are completely separate.

In regard to the involvement of the RCMP in the PPS, while, again, we could probably expand on this in another forum, the amendments to the Parliament of Canada Act, and the subsequent MOU were very deliberate in ensuring that the trilateral governance was in place. This ensures that rights and privileges are absolute.

There is no conceivable environment where the director of the PPS would be asked to contravene an existing piece of legislation. If I can tie that into your comment about the press and the security clearances there, I will say that the RCMP is simply a service provider in that regard.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I'm sorry to interrupt. I don't mean to be rude.

But the criteria for what will be acceptable in terms of security, who will make that decision?

And by the way, I don't accept any of this, that there is this independence and all that. We've been through this. I'd love to do it in public, to go through the actual command and control and who does what. At the end of the day, I think it's very clear that King Charles would be thrilled with this kind of a set-up. Let's just put it that way. I can only hope that some day Parliament takes back it's autonomous control of security.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Let me tell you that I don't forget William Lenthall and what he said to King Charles. In fact, it's something that I very often quote because, as you may know, the face of Speaker Lenthall is in the ceiling of my office. So he looks down upon me and reminds me often of the importance of the autonomy, independence, and authority of the House of Commons in relation to the executive.

Since you mentioned King Charles, I couldn't resist.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Fair enough, but let's hope that we return to a day where Parliament actually has sovereign autonomy over its own security services, which at this second we do not.

So would you continue, please. Who sets the criteria to decide whether or not a journalist is allowed to conduct their profession here on the Hill? How will that—

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

It's actually not the PPS, but the Corporate Security Office. You might want to have us come back some time when I have Mr. McDonell with me to talk about that some more.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay. How does one find out how they set these, and where is the input to decide whether or not the thresholds are fair?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

In fact, there are discussions going on right now between the Corporate Security Office and the press gallery to work out what those rules should be. I think we're moving in a good direction in that regard, as I think you'll hear.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you, that is the time.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It goes so fast, Chair.

Thank you for those answers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Ms. Tassi.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your presence here today.

I'm new to this committee, so I apologize if my questions are basic, but they will just help me get up to speed.

First, what I'd like to say is just to commend the security team. They're absolutely fantastic.

As a new member of Parliament, I have to tell you that I'm not only impressed with the professionalism, kindness, and compassion in how they wish to take care of us and do take care of us, but also want to commend you and all those responsible for the oversight of the security here.

In that same spirit I also want to make sure that they are at the top of their game, that they are able to do the job they are set out to do. I have had some conversations, which get back to MP Graham's questioning, with respect to overtime and fatigue levels of the security service.

Superintendent O'Beirne, we started that conversation but then I think we got sidetracked a bit. You mentioned the concept of being fully staffed and that you've done research in that regard to determine what it takes. Do you have the number of current security officers that you have and the number you would need—because my understanding is that we need more based on the overtime hours—to be satisfied that you are fully staffed?

[Supt Mike O'Beirne]

You're correct in that the overtime is always at the forefront of our concerns, and not only from a fiscal risk perspective, but also as a wellness concern for us. To that end, I'll mention that we've developed a multitude of initiatives geared towards employee wellness—physical and mental health initiatives. That is certainly at the forefront of our concerns.

From an overtime perspective and how that translates into our posture, as I mentioned, the coming together of the three separate entities was at a time when there were a multitude of security changes on Parliament Hill, on the grounds and in the precinct. As we've come together as a security entity, we have had the opportunity, for example, to optimize our levels at areas such as, let's say, the vehicle screening facility where we continue to employ our defensive posture strategy of multiple layers of security. As I mentioned, we've had some optimization there when it comes to resourcing pressures.

To your question about the actual number, you'll be pleased to hear that we just launched one of our training courses yesterday, which sees our brand new recruit class starting. It's a nine-week training course, so we're looking forward to having them join the force for the upcoming summer months.

I mention that because this is an ongoing effort for us as we position ourselves as well for the 2018 LTVP pressures of the decommissioning of Centre Block and also the ramping up of other areas.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I can appreciate that, but I guess, for me, it's do you have a number for the positions you are looking to fill with respect to the security? Is it 50, 20, 30? Do you have a number of people you are looking for so you will in fact be, as you refer to it, fully staffed? I am referring to vacancies, in other words, so that the overtime issue....

I appreciate the initiatives you're taking, but my question is why wouldn't you just hire people? What's happening with respect to the hiring? How many positions are you looking for to fill that gap, so you don't have to rely on overtime?

[Supt Mike O'Beirne]

What we're doing to come to that number.... It is constantly in flux. We have an attrition rate that we deal with as well, but also an expansion rate that we foresee as likely being temporary. Again, as I mentioned, with the West Block commissioning sometime in 2018, we're looking forward to knowing what the final timelines are going to be.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Okay.

You don't have a number right now, but you're looking to add people. When you're adding people—you mentioned this training course—how many are you looking at? What would be ideal? How many are in the training course?

[Supt Mike O'Beirne]

I would be more than happy to give you some numbers, perhaps in another medium or in written form, if that could be acceptable.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Okay.

[Supt Mike O'Beirne]

We are looking to find that optimum balance to be able to ensure that our overtime is brought to a minimum in the not-too-distant future. We're under no illusion that we'll ever get to zero because of the external unknowns that we have to be responsive to.

Again, I can provide those numbers to you—

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Okay, that would be great.

[Supt Mike O'Beirne]

—in another form.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

How many are in the training course that's going to start?

[Supt Mike O'Beirne]

We have approximately 22 at this time.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Twenty-two.

Is it anticipated that they will all end up going through the training course and then be ready to serve? Do some of them get dropped because they don't pass, or—?