Thank you. A hush fell over the crowd.
I know that Mr. Chan is paying attention deeply and I appreciate that, as I'm sure are other members. I didn't mean to suggest he was the only one. Nonetheless, now I seem to have touched off further conversation.
In any event, I know this is an active place for deliberation and I do welcome that. However, as members deliberate in different ways at and behind the table, I think they should be reflecting on the importance of the deliberative and decision-making role of our Parliament and the way in which we need to ensure that we protect that substructure of our democracy, that we don't allow the kinds of things that have happened today to become a pattern in terms of the way we deal with each other.
I think the form of events that unfolded today really illustrate a point that is central to our discussion of this amendment, which is the way in which well-functioning parliamentary institutions inevitably require the consent of more than just one side of the discussion in order for them to work properly.
If we in the opposition are so frustrated—as I think we are, and legitimately so—by the lack of respect we are receiving from the executive, we will seek every opportunity we have to strongly present our objections and concerns. Of course, that takes a variety of forms. We had the raising of different kinds of motions and the lack of use of the normal notification processes. There are many things that we accept as being important for Parliament to function well that involve the collaboration of parties.
Reflective of the mood established by the government's position on this amendment, I think we saw some of the outworking of that frustration, including, on the one hand, a further disrespect on a number of fronts shown by the government to the opposition; and on the other hand, the opposition rightly needing to raise a number of points of order and questions of privilege to respond to those concerns.
I think ultimately we want to be spending as much of our time as possible, if not all of our time, debating the business of the nation, not discussing procedural issues. Of course, this is a committee whose function it is to discuss procedure, but outside the context of the committee, especially in the chamber itself, we would want to be at a point where we're spending as much of our time as possible discussing those substantive aspects of the situation that inform the realities that are part of the lives of Canadians who don't spend a lot of time in this place. However, we need to take a stand when those aspects of procedure undermine the natural co-operation and expectation of consensus that exists between parties. When that is undermined, that has a negative effect on the way in which our traditions can operate.
I think the other issue is that if we are going to explore this study, it has to be within the framework of the amendment, because that requires us then to do the sorts of things that will engage a broader number of members and therefore provoke discussion of the kinds of questions that might not be in the interests of the front bench of any party, but might actually reflect the better functioning of the House.
One of the reforms to the way our democracy works that merits serious consideration and study is the question of whether party names are on the ballot. Removing party names from the ballot would be one very simple reform that would increase the chances that voters are paying particular attention to the name of the individual. Of course, it wouldn't prevent people from affiliating with parties and from voting on the basis of the party, but it would give somebody who does not have a party affiliation a greater ability to run. It would create an opportunity for someone who may identify with a philosophy of a party but was prevented from getting the blessing of the party. It would make it easier for that person to present themselves successfully in an election if you didn't have the name of a party on the ballot.
That, of course, is the kind of change that I think may have some potential problems, but I think it's certainly worthy of further study. It's the kind of change that you're unlikely to see proposed by the leadership of any party, or a whip or a House leader get behind. The reason is fairly simple. If members of Parliament have a greater sense of independence, if there isn't the issue of the party name beside their name on the ballot anyway, then perhaps that's a reason or an opportunity for members of Parliament to exercise a little more independence or leverage in the context of the discussions that are taking place in the House.
Recognizing that, it's unlikely that that kind of reform would come through in a very partisan approach to discussions of changes to the Standing Orders.
If we don't have this amendment in place, then inevitably the discussion becomes partisan, because you have different parties trying to seek majorities. But if you introduce the requirement for unanimity, you remove the option of the government's acting in this respect unilaterally. You increase the chances that members will think about changes to the Standing Orders that may go in a different direction from the proposals of the government House leader, but may reflect, in particular, their priorities as members and may seek to address that balance in a positive way, between the executive and the legislative functions of our government.
I note parenthetically that the article that I read from The Dorchester Review spoke specifically of the Prime Minister's admiration for consensus governance.
I don't think it would be practical or desirable to move to a non-partisan, consensus-style government for the whole of Parliament. I think that would be impractical and unrealistic. I think it would also forestall the exposure of legitimate debates that people need to see clear sides of. I think we need to have a government and an opposition in our discussion of the issues that come before us.
But I think committees, as smaller communities of people who work together in a more direct, more personal way, can benefit from at least a consideration of that model of more consensus. We can operate as committees in a way that, as much as possible, takes a step back from our partisan identity and emphasizes our identity as members and asks, as 10 people around a table, what we want to do with the issue that's in front of us to make the country better.
When you require unanimity to move forward, I think you end up with a system in which you have strengthened that possibility, that role for consensus, when you have something like the amendment we have to put in place. But its absence creates a condition in which we all fall in line. If there is that consensus system, I think, in the context of that study, good ideas will bubble to the top that wouldn't otherwise. You'll have members within the same party who may disagree with each other, and there will be discussions that will be particularly productive. Maybe that will be, in some senses, less efficient and will take time, but it will be quite worthwhile.
In the discussions of the Standing Orders that have taken place so far, I think we started off on a reasonably good foot when we had debate on this issue take place in the House of Commons. We had different points of view expressed by people from different parties, and we had members of the same party presenting alternative points of view. I'm probably not going to be able to find the exact quote, but I think there was a reference made by some members of the government—not just the government caucus, but the government—that maybe the procedure and House affairs committee could together come up with a set of proposals. I think that would be a really productive and interesting way to proceed.
Putting aside this discussion paper, we could establish an agreement about moving forward with agreement, with unanimity, and have the committee as a whole then work through it, discuss it, hear experts and ask how we could change the Standing Orders, with the expectation at the end of it that you could build a unanimous report coming out of the committee that would say, “These are some changes to the Standing Orders that we agree are needed.” At that point, we'd have an opportunity to make some really good changes.
Going through the discussion that happened earlier on Standing Orders, I note that even if there's been an effort to control it by this discussion paper and the way in which the government has proceeded, we already have some really interesting and innovative suggestions from members of the government caucus that don't seem to accord exactly with what the government is proposing in the discussion paper and that are still certainly very much worth considering.
I note that a Hill Times article covered the discussion in mentioning the interventions of Ms. Anita Vandenbeld, who not only is a member of Parliament but has also worked as a political staffer in the past. I didn't know that. She suggested changes—I'm quoting from the article—including “having government bills go to committee after first reading instead of second reading to let them be reviewed before the government becomes too invested in seeing it pass”.
I don't really agree with that, but I think it's an interesting idea. I think it probably makes sense for the House to pronounce on the principle of the bill before it is studied in committee. Although there are provisions now for the committee to do some prestudy of legislation, and there are certain cases where that may make sense, it is not normally automatic. I don't think I agree with Ms. Vandenbeld that it should be, but it's still an interesting idea.
As well, says the article, “She also suggested handing over powers currently held by the government House leadership team to the Speaker on things like the use of time allocation.” That's an interesting idea, isn't it, to have the Speaker—