Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 30th, 2017

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. You think you could make this work in a positive way for Canadians if there was something that compelled people and you removed “I won't play” as an option. Am I correct?

[Jennifer McGuire]

Yes. If there was a guarantee that it would happen, we are confident that we could extend the reach digitally. In 2015, we had Facebook, Google, YouTube, and Twitter all on board to extend the social and digital reach, but it just didn't get a chance to be implemented.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Let me flip it around, then, and put the question to you. If we went down that road, do you have a preference about whether we go with a stand-alone entity or a carve-out within Elections Canada? Does it matter to you whether that entity is stand-alone or Elections Canada? Do you have a preference?

[Michel Cormier]

I don't know. We haven't seen any proposal yet.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Because there isn't one....

[Michel Cormier]

I know. It's kind of hard to—

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I hear you. We are in the process of doing that. I am trying to elicit as much input as I can from you folks. You are a big part of the play. What you think is going to find its way into our thinking, and I'm just giving you as much opportunity as possible to influence that outcome. Have at it.

[Troy Reeb]

If I may.... Whether it's one or the other, from our perspective—and I think I am speaking for my colleagues now—the news organizations would want to have significant say there. It's important to have.... CPAC was referenced earlier. CPAC runs vigorous debate on television every day. I'll show you what the ratings are. They are not very good. That's because they are sort of taking raw debate the way it is set up in the Commons, or in the committee rooms sometimes. However, if you frame that with a proper moderator and in the proper circumstance, and you have the journalistic pulse that's provided to make sure that it hits all the touch points, then you create great television and you connect with all kinds of Canadians. I think the role of the news organizations is really key in that.

It's also key that we figure out scheduling. For a committee to just say, “We are going to stick this on Wednesday nights at nine”, then you're up against Survivor. Even if you mandate that it go on Global and that we bump Survivor, Survivor is still going to be on CBS and the tribe will have spoken by the end of that debate. There is a lot of stuff that needs to be figured out.

[Wendy Freeman]

So I—

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Briefly, please, because the time is up.

Also, welcome to the kids at the committee. We love to have kids here.

Wendy, go ahead.

[Wendy Freeman]

I was just going to say that we want to be a part of whatever is decided.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

At the end of the day, I can't imagine that you wouldn't be, I have to say.

I think my time is done. Thank you, Chair.

Thanks very much for the answers. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you.

Mr. Bittle, the floor is yours.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much, everyone, for participating today.

A number of you spoke about journalistic standards. I'm wondering if you could expand on what that means to your organizations. If there are examples from a debate that didn't conform to those standards, if you could perhaps highlight those for us, we could have a better idea of what you're referring to.

[Jennifer McGuire]

Journalistic standards include defining what topics get discussed, defining how the debate will take place in terms of the format, and having a journalist be able to ask follow-up questions in the context of the issues of the day, again, to move past prepared speeches into some of the back and forth around the issues. You want the person who's moderating to cover the issues. You want someone who knows the issues, who can participate and gear and reality-check if necessary.

You want to make sure, in the staging of the debate, that you're touching the issues that you see, in terms of whatever the campaign is, really matter to Canadians.

[Wendy Freeman]

The moderator is a good example. It really needs to be someone who is following politics and really understands the issues of the day. Also, even in the production, journalism is involved—the way the shots are, the sets, etc.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

This is a specific question. I know we haven't provided a proposed framework, but hypothetically speaking, if there were a framework and an independent commissioner put forward, with advice and/or input from the broadcasters, would the broadcasters accept a change to the Broadcasting Act requiring them to broadcast the debate if it was approved by an independent commissioner, having been advised by the broadcasters?

[Jennifer McGuire]

Certainly, CBC is going to play in whatever scenario gets put forward. I would say that in terms of public trust, the arm's-length view, having the journalists frame the issues will be important in terms of how it resonates.

[Wendy Freeman]

I don't think we should ever be forced into doing anything that we normally would be doing. We've always run debates in the past, and we want to run them again.

[Troy Reeb]

I wouldn't pretend to answer your question with another question, but how broad is that change to the Broadcasting Act? There are 300-plus licensed channels in this country. To be clear, at Global, our local stations are not required to cover national news. We are not mandated to do a national newscast. We're licensed as local stations. We voluntarily create a national news broadcast, and we voluntarily open a bureau here on Parliament Hill to cover the affairs of the nation.

Should Global be penalized in its regulation because of its voluntary acquiescence to doing the right thing in the past? Why not mandate the debate on TSN or on Food Network, or on the myriad other channels that are out there—or on Netflix or YouTube or Facebook? Where does this go? Even in the conventional television space, there are many licensed over-the-air broadcasters that have not taken the debates in the past and choose not to have national news organizations.

I think we would be very resistant to that. Without consulting with my regulatory team, I can't say that we wouldn't accept something, but I would say we would be very resistant to any such change.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

In my opinion, zero nationally broadcast debates is clearly not enough for Canadians. I know Mr. Reeb talked about the shortness, typically, of the writ period. On the other side of it, is there a number of debates that is too many? Is there an ideal number—one in English, one in French? Should there be more?

What are your thoughts in terms of viewership by Canadians to get the most reach and have the best interest of the public at heart?

[Wendy Freeman]

We definitely have to have one in English and one in French. I think there was a year in which we did two in French and two in English. I can't remember when that was, but absolutely, we need to have at least one in each language.

[Jennifer McGuire]

The value of having more is that you can frame them more narrowly, but you're going to lose the impact. In terms of having too many, it is a relatively short period of time.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Is the timing of the debate something that a commissioner should get into? Is that something that should be discussed? Is that something the networks have an opinion on? Is there a better time frame—closer to the election, in the middle of the election—or is it best to have, as some have suggested, a more nimble organization that really doesn't get into it and be too overly prescriptive as parliamentarians on such an independent commissioner?

[Jennifer McGuire]

Certainly we would advocate for it being well into the campaign. Canadians have their interests piqued and there's more engagement, we think, mid-campaign or later. However, I think that should be negotiated with the networks.

As Troy said, even for us there is a negotiation that goes on with our own networks in terms of positioning it to advantage, but there are revenue implications for all of us in terms of displacing existing programming. That is also a negotiation among the networks.