Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 30th, 2017

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Following up on that widest reach, could you tell me what your online viewership was?

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

In 10 seconds or less....

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

It will only take 10 seconds.

[Jennifer McGuire]

Currently, CBC—

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

No, no, the viewership of the debate you streamed online.

[Jennifer McGuire]

I would have to pull that number. I don't have it in front of me.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Could you please provide it to the clerk?

[Jennifer McGuire]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you, Mr. Nater.

Our last questioner is Ms. Tassi.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm actually going to split my time with Ms. Sahota. We both have questions that we would like to present to the panel.

I want to thank you for being here today and for the input. It's been very helpful for me. I appreciate your comments with respect to the excellence of the product, and I agree with that. I think that we will engage more Canadians by providing an excellent product. I know that you put a lot of time and effort into doing that.

In terms of what we're here for today—I think, Wendy, you mentioned it in terms of finding a solution—I have a two-part question. First, we are trying to see to it that we present an excellent product that helps inform voters and engages voters. Do you see the establishment of a commission or a commissioner in helping us to get to that end?

Second, what input would you give us with respect to how to move forward in order to establish a framework in which you're still going to provide and have input on the excellence of the product but we get to a point where we are able to present excellent products at the end, with the role of a commissioner if you feel that's the right move?

[Jennifer McGuire]

I would encourage flexibility.

I will tell you that even from a broadcast perspective, we produce a television product and distribute it digitally, but that is no longer the reality of how people consume content. More and more, we're moving towards interactivity in the digital and social spaces. What the production model is and how you could define that in a fixed way.... I don't know how you do something that will be relevant five or 10 years down the road because how people consume content is changing at such a rapid rate.

That is why we're arguing that people with the production expertise who are active in these spaces should help frame the nature of the product that is created, and then the journalistic independence will impact whether people trust it or not. We know that.

We would absolutely support a guarantee of access. Would we work with an independent commission? Absolutely, we would. Does the CBC feel it has a role to play in this? Yes, as I'm sure the other broadcasters will say as well.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Do you see it as a consortium still, where you gather together, come up with ideas, and then present them to the commissioner? Is that what you think is a positive move forward?

[Jennifer McGuire]

My view would be that the committee frame the conditions for a debate to happen and then we figure out the best way to connect it and engage with Canadians.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Quickly, with what little time I may have left, there was evidence, through testimony previously presented to this committee, that not only a commission or a commissioner could perform this role, that it could be the broadcast arbitrator. What are your thoughts about that?

[Troy Reeb]

Are you referring to the CRTC or...?

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

I actually don't know what they were referring to, but they said that there was a broadcast arbitrator that could play this role, to make sure that there weren't the disagreements that happened last time.

[Jennifer McGuire]

Are you referring to the CRTC, or...?

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

I believe so.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

I think it might be Elections Canada that is the broadcast arbitrator.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

That's correct. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Elections Canada has a role as broadcast arbitrator to decide how the airing of advertising happens during the election. They were referring to that arbitrator. Do you see that they could maybe play this role?

[Jennifer McGuire]

I would have to think about it more, where it best sits. Again, I think that when they happen and how they get scheduled should be an active conversation, to position them to have greater impact.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Okay.

You were saying that you would like to compel the leaders, but you won't say what kinds of penalties should be associated with that or how we motivate them. What stops companies like YouTube from having their own debate and perhaps the leaders running to that debate if they see a big public interest in that forum? Even if tomorrow we have a commissioner who says, “We're mandating these four debates. These are the official debates,” what's to stop us from being sidelined by a big YouTube debate? Who's to control that? How do we do anything about it?

[Troy Reeb]

Honestly, I don't know that anybody does, and hopefully YouTube does try to stage a big debate. As I said earlier, the more debates the better. Canadians deserve to hear from their prospective leaders on the platforms that they choose. By and large, the largest platform continues to be television, particularly for live events.

I would like to draw the distinction between being television broadcasters and being news organizations, which I think is paramount here. It's to have a debate that is framed through the window of a news organization, so there is a story that's told that can be engaging to Canadians, and the debate is framed that way.

I don't think there should be anything that should limit who is able to propose debates.

[Wendy Freeman]

I think it's also important to know that these are not journalists at YouTube. YouTube is a distributor. They are not production experts. They are not journalists. I'm not sure who they would get to moderate a debate. They are distributors of video.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

I'm sure many people would be willing to come forward to do that, but I'm just asking how we control that, and whether we control it. I liked the answer I got.