Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 23rd, 2020

[Michel Patrice]

Based on the recommendations of public health officials and the decision of the board in terms of directions to follow, we're continuing the measures that were approved on March 13. The board recently reconfirmed those measures.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

As members of Parliament, we are all employers and we all have employees. Mr. Parent or Mr. Patrice, what are the obligations employers have toward their employees during the type of pandemic situation that we're facing right now?

[Michel Patrice]

I'm going to start by saying that our obligation as employers is to provide a safe and secure health environment. Maybe I could ask Mr. Parent or Madam Leclair to continue and respond in terms of the different protocols that we've put in place.

[Pierre Parent, Chief Human Resources Officer, House of Commons]

Michel kind of stole my answer there, but yes, members are employers for their employees, so it's important to ensure that you are providing your employees with a safe environment. I know it's probably easier in Ottawa, but in your ridings there is probably more activity.

We have an HR service for members that is ready to assist you. If you have questions about how to manage your workplaces, please call us. Even though they are working from home, they are able to support you wherever you are in Canada.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you.

I believe Ms. May wanted to ask a question, but I don't know how much time I have left.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

You have about 30 or 40 seconds.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I'll share my time with Ms. May, if that's okay.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you. If I can, Madam Chair, I'll ask a question within 30 seconds.

Mr. Patrice, when I was observing on CPAC the session that just took place, I didn't see a six-foot distance between the table officers. I'm concerned that we didn't observe physical distancing. In the opposition lobby, I observed MPs clustering. The issue isn't whether I could walk in; the issue is I observed MPs clustering. I'm also very concerned for our table officers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I think that's all the time we have. Maybe at the end of this round we can ask if the committee is okay with hearing from Ms. May a little more.

We will move on to Mr. Richards, please, for five minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you.

We obviously have to consider public health when we think about how we do everything we do. As parliamentarians, we are now contemplating how we can continue to perform our roles as representatives of the people and what that means for how the House of Commons sits, how our committees work and how we do all of our other functions, whether they are in our riding or are our political functions.

For example, as I quite often do in non-election periods, I had planned to spend a lot of time in my riding in getting out and knocking on people's doors in order to hear from them about what kinds of concerns they have and what things on their behalf they'd like to see me working on in Parliament and elsewhere. Through the last six weeks or so, that has not been something that I've been able to do. Typically, it would have been something that I would have done quite a bit of through a couple of non-sitting weeks. This affects a lot of the things we do. As politicians, one of the other functions that we all perform, of course, is our political function. That would be a part of this.

I'm curious. We're in a minority Parliament right now, obviously, Dr. Raymond, and elections are always possible in a minority Parliament, at just about any time. Given what we're dealing with in this crisis, I wonder if you could tell us what it would look like if there were to be an election this summer or this fall. Do you think it would be possible for that to occur in the next three, four or five months? If so, what would have to be done to take precautions and to enable something like that to occur?

[Dr. Barbara Raymond]

If something of that nature were required, it would require a significant degree of planning in terms of how to do that safely, including physical distancing and avoiding mass gatherings and a large number of people coming together at any given time.

If the requirement is absolute, then we find a way to manage the risk associated with it. The first rule of risk management is to, if you can, avoid or eliminate the risk. If you can't avoid or eliminate the risk, then you take measures to put infrastructure or other structural changes into place that will help to manage or decrease the risk. Then you introduce policies and practices and so forth that will help to further reduce the risk.

You really always have to be aware that you are running a risk and [Technical difficulty—Editor] the ability to manage that.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Yes.

There are obviously factors that anyone would consider in terms of triggering an election, and many of those are political, but I'm asking for your advice from purely a health perspective. Would you say that it would be advisable to attempt to do everything we can to avoid going into an election during this period of time?

[Dr. Barbara Raymond]

I would recommend taking whatever measures we could to avoid creating a condition whereby we increase the risk of transmission, where we create an opportunity for mass gatherings or large gatherings and where we create an opportunity or an obligation for people to gather together when they possibly can't maintain their distancing. Also, some people who are sick or some people are symptomatic would not be able to leave their homes. It would be a very complex undertaking.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Yes.

Certainly, to hear you talk about the idea of large gatherings.... On the idea of people going to the polling stations to vote, I guess that's not necessarily a large gathering all at once, but you obviously have a lot of people going in and out of the same space over the course of a day. It would be pretty hard to imagine a scenario where it would be possible to do that safely, I would think.

[Dr. Barbara Raymond]

It would be challenging. My station always has a big lineup.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you so much.

Next we will move on to Mr. Turnbull for five minutes.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you very much. I really hold all our panellists in very high regard and I thank you for being here.

My first question is directed towards Dr. Raymond. I want to ask about the public health advice and how decisions are made before things such as stay-at-home messages are released to the public.

Before PHAC came out with that messaging, did public health officials consider the inconvenience it would cause in people's daily lives for them to stay home?

[Dr. Barbara Raymond]

Absolutely.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Great, and did they also consider whether people were technologically savvy and could potentially work remotely?

[Dr. Barbara Raymond]

Yes, it was considered and it's always a factor, but we were well aware that not everybody had that capacity.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you.

What about the knowledge of different Internet speeds and the variation in that across the country? Was that taken into consideration before that public health advice was put out very broadly?

[Dr. Barbara Raymond]

It was part of the knowledge set that we had at the time. I guess I would say to you that if we could choose the time for our pandemic, we would have chosen a time when conditions maybe were better suited to having everybody stay at home.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Sure. What about the disruption to the economy and the workplace of having people not be able to go to work? Was that taken into consideration?

[Dr. Barbara Raymond]

These decisions were not taken lightly. They were not taken easily. There was a very full appreciation of the level of sacrifices that Canadians were being asked to make to preserve the health and well-being of other Canadians.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Then despite all those inconveniences, disruptions and behavioural shifts that we know are challenging for anybody to accept, public health still came out with the advice to stay home. Why did they do that?