Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 23rd, 2020

[Dr. Barbara Raymond]

It was because the cost, in terms of human life and illness, was considered to warrant it.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you.

Is it fair to ask people to do that when there are massive repercussions associated with not complying with that advice?

[Dr. Barbara Raymond]

That is a very philosophical question. It's a very challenging question, but the nature of public health interventions is that we ask all Canadians to make personal sacrifices, not necessarily for themselves and sometimes counter to their own best interest or self-interest, but to preserve the health and well-being of others, particularly the vulnerable, and in this instance, our elderly, and so forth.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you.

Does that include members of Parliament?

[Dr. Barbara Raymond]

We have asked extraordinary things of all Canadians.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate the answers.

We've also heard that even within the reduced sittings, many staff have to go back to Parliament. It sounds to me as though there are quite a few risks even with the reduced number. By my rudimentary calculations, the estimates were over 100 people going back into the physical space.

I wonder if I could ask you a question that might make you feel a little uncomfortable, but I feel the need to make the point. That is, if you had the medical histories of all the 100 or so people who are having to go back to Parliament, would you in fact be able to predict which ones would contract the virus and which ones might succumb to it and eventually die?

[Dr. Barbara Raymond]

I would not necessarily be able to predict who might be in contact or who might be infected, but there are some indicators that we have, that we know, of who would be the most severely impacted, who would have the most serious disease, who might require a ventilator or critical care, and certainly those who might pass away.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Dr. Raymond. That's all the time we have for this round.

Because we have enough time, we are able to go into our agreed-upon two and a half minute rounds. I just wonder at this time, because we do have a couple of minutes of leeway, if we could allow Ms. May to get two and a half minutes as well. Is that okay with the committee?

We will still have enough time to change over the panellists and get to the next panel.

Right now we will hear, for two and a half minutes, from Madame Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

My question comes with a short preamble, and since I'll be asking only one question, I'll be able to leave additional time for other members.

Nearly all MPs agree that we need to work from home whenever possible.

We will have to ask ourselves some questions about our presence in the House. Is it essential that we only show up for votes? Is it essential that we show up once—or three times—a week? Is it essential that there be 30, 60 or 120 members?

Dr. Raymond, could you give us some examples of criteria used in other settings to determine what is essential and what isn't, such as the criteria used by the Public Health Agency of Canada?

[Dr. Barbara Raymond]

In general we have defined “essential” workers or occupations as people who are providing direct care to those who are impacted by COVID-19 and supporting that care, and people who are supporting the response by maintaining food supplies, critical infrastructure services and so forth, and in general maintaining the ongoing functioning of the country.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I would like to ask a sub-question about the physical presence of these people.

Who is considered essential?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I don't think we had interpretation there. There may be a little bit of a problem.

[Dr. Barbara Raymond]

I think she is asking why we would require an actual physical presence in the workplace. That is very subjective and could be determined based on the requirement that needs to be met in the workplace.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I think my time is up, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you so much.

We'll move on to Ms. Blaney for two and a half minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First of all, Mr. Patrice, you talked about having masks and gloves and working out a protocol around that, and whether they'll be needed. When will this be something you feel the staff of the House will require? What's the measure that you'll be using?

[Michel Patrice]

Essentially, it's the advice provided by public health officials. We're just trying to anticipate whether this will come or not, and be ready.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

When the House has one of its reduced sittings—and it's had three now—what does that mean in terms of increased cleaning requirements? I know you have a plan around how to keep all of those spaces, which you talked about earlier, those high-travel areas, clean. How has that increased, and are there other areas you add to the cleaning regime during the reduced sittings?

[Michel Patrice]

We've basically planned our work around the requirements in terms of increased cleaning, and we're able to support those requirements.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay.

When you have a reduced sitting of the House, are staff who do that work encouraged to do a little more, or do you have to bring in more people? I'm just curious, with the reduced sittings, how many more people you have to bring on site.

[Michel Patrice]

I have a specific number for the cleaning staff, but obviously when the House is sitting we bring in a few more. You'll understand that in a no-COVID time, our staff is way bigger in terms of supporting the precinct as a whole. We have lots of cleaning staff who obviously cannot work from home and who are at home right now, so we do a rotation in terms of not putting the same pressure on the same people.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

There was a question about signing into West Block. I understand that every building of Parliament has a sign-in system right now, so we're able to track who's coming in and who's sticking around. If people come in and work from their office within any of the parliamentary buildings, how much increased cleaning is required? How do you measure that, knowing that people can come in and out of those buildings as they feel they need to during any parliamentary day or any day at all?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

In 10 seconds, please.

[Michel Patrice]

The sign-in for us is very useful because it allows us to do targeted cleaning as opposed to cleaning the whole building.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you so much.

Ms. May, for two and a half minutes.