Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 12th, 2020

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Madam Chair, thank you.

I appreciated Mr. Duncan's clarification question. I think if we had started on the previous section in the recommendations.... I think we skipped into the second section, which had recommendations. From my perspective, Mr. Brassard's comment is to contain this situation to extraordinary circumstances, and really, that's what this committee is studying. We are looking at a fully functioning virtual Parliament within extraordinary circumstances. I think if we had started on the previous section, that would have been much more clear as part of many of the recommendations that were being made by many of the parties.

In terms of process, I wonder if we would just focus on the content of the sections rather than the recommendations, as you said, Madam Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

You're absolutely correct, Ryan.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

—and then start from the beginning.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

You're absolutely correct. I think I was focusing on the text, and then all of a sudden the recommendations I had skipped started standing out to me more than they did. That was an error on my part.

Let's carry on. We have had a little bit of discussion, and everyone has been able to give some thought as to how they want to see the recommendations look in the end. We will carry on with “employ an incremental approach to expanding the House's technological operations.”

Is everybody okay with the text of that section? Yes.

Section (c) is headed “Uphold the rights, immunities and privileges of the House and its members”.

We're going to take a look at the text of this section at this point. Then we will come back to all the recommendations in one chunk.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

A sentence in the second paragraph begins with “Witnesses described the importance protecting.” I need “of” added.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Absolutely.

Andre, did you get that? It's line 10 on page 29. Perfect.

Section (d) is “Uphold language rights”. We are just looking at the text.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Madam Chair, on page 29, from line 23 to page 30, we did hear evidence, and I guess it would fall into this category, from Ms. Qaqqaq's testimony that she was concerned that her privileges would be 100% in jeopardy. I think it's important too, because I asked that specific question of her. I think it would be important for that to be reflected in the report as we're addressing members' privileges.

It is not in this report, and I suggest that it should be, Madam Chair, so that the members of Parliament understand there are concerns out there for at least this individual member of Parliament.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Okay.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I have Christine. Then, Mark, I'll go to you.

Could I request that we continue to have the hands go up in the “participants” part of Zoom? It will just keep the order better.

Christine, do you have a comment on the language rights section? We've backtracked right now to the rights immunity section and to privileges.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

My comment concerns parliamentary immunity and privilege. I'd like to see an addition reflecting Mr. Rota's representations relating to the question I asked, which was whether increasing the number of in-person sittings would constitute an obstruction of parliamentary privilege.

I think that this point of view is also relevant and that we should have this opposing view, since the committee's recommendations may be used in the further analysis of our return to the House on May 25. In one of his responses, Mr. Rota said that returning to sit in person more frequently could be seen as obstructing the parliamentary privilege of MPs who are older, farther away and less healthy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

On the two notes, Andre, one is the quote from MP Qaqqaq about her feeling that her privileges would.... You can find the exact language that she used at that time. The other is from Speaker Rota, who was talking about continuing an in-person Parliament and how members' privileges could be impeded in that way as well. Both of those opinions add good context and add both sides of it.

Mr. Gerretsen.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm okay with Mr. Brassard's point about adding in what Ms. Qaqqaq had indicated, but I asked a follow-up question to that as to whether or not there had actually ever been a ruling on that. I think it's important to point out that if we're going to add that in, we should indicate that it was her opinion, and that there had never been such a ruling on parliamentary privilege there, as it related to her thoughts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I think you asked whether she raised the question of privilege herself.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

That's correct.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Okay.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I just think it should be pointed out that she had not actually raised that. It was her interpretation of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Okay. I guess there is going to be a big section quoting the interaction back and forth a bit there.

Andre, is that possible? Okay.

Next we have Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

It's an interesting point. I don't know how there could have been a ruling, as we've never run a virtual Parliament. The point is, her concern is there.

Now that we're talking about this, just so that you all know, I am going to move, hopefully, the one recommendation that talks about making sure that every member of Parliament has adequate Internet accessibility, because this is a concern. I want to remind you that Mr. Dufresne and Mr. Bosc, as is written in this report, said that there had never been a ruling on this, so that if this were becoming become an issue of privilege, there would have to be a process that unfolded. That is the reality as we are moving into a place where the unknown is the new reality—and how interesting it will be for the Speaker to make those kinds of rulings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Yes, absolutely. We're all living through a time that is going to go down in history as being very memorable, especially here on Parliament Hill. Everything we engage in, even at this committee, is historic.

Mr. Gerretsen, do you still want that part included and then, in response, that there hasn't been an opportunity to raise that, or...?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Well, it could be worded in that way. I just think that when we start talking about parliamentary privilege it's an extremely serious thing, and I just want it to be clear that it had.... I totally respect and agree with Ms. Blaney's approach and, indeed, we have a very similar recommendation to that as well. I just want to make sure that it's understood that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Mark, can you put the mike a little closer to your mouth?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Yes.

When we talk about about parliamentary privilege, we're talking about something that's extremely serious. I just want to make sure that it's on the record in terms of the fact that this is an opinion, and we've had numerous opinions on parliamentary privilege.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I do think Andre has done a good job of reflecting quite a few of those opinions throughout the report. This section will become even meatier with these additions.

Okay? Everybody has given good feedback and comments. I think we can move on from the privileges section.

Mr. Gerretsen and Mr. Brassard, your hands were up from before, correct?

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Yes. I apologize, Madam Chair. I meant to change that after your interaction with Mr. Gerretsen, to correct what was said. That was why I was going to intervene there.

Thank you for that.