Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 13th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

That's a better word for it, subamendment. I'm losing my vocabulary at this point.

(Subamendment negatived: nays 7, yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Okay. Now we're back to the suggested recommendation LIB 9, as amended.

(Text of recommendation as modified agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We're almost done, guys.

I'm just trying to encourage you. We do have a little bit more, but it's encouraging.

We are on LIB 10 regarding “Hybrid model for sittings of the House”.

Mr. Duncan and Mr. Brassard.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I'll let Mr. Brassard go first. I have to find my note that I wrote on this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Okay.

Mr. Brassard.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

I'm sorry, Madam Chair. I'm just going back and forth.

When we read the recommendation, “acknowledge that virtual sittings of the Special Committee on the COVID-19 Pandemic have been successful and 300-plus MPs”, I think we're really making a presumption here. There are several accounts of the fact that the virtual proceedings have not gone well despite the fact that we may think so. There are members who have not been able to access some of these committee meetings whether it's a bad connection, lack of rural broadband or lack of connectivity.

The fact that we're somehow championing this as successful, for me, and from what I've seen and heard from several colleagues at least, it's still a work in progress. We heard again from one of the NDP members from Nunavut that she would have virtual connection difficulties. I think we're making a very strong presumption acknowledging, as the word says, that virtual sittings have been “successful” despite what we've been hearing from several members.

I will not be supporting this as a recommendation, and I'm going to ask that a recorded vote be taken on this.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Mr. Duncan and then Mr. Turnbull.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I think the work that Andre has done in terms of building that section has been very well done. I think it talks about some of our witness testimony, about how the hybrid model could actually address a lot of the potential legal challenges of an interpretation of how a hybrid model could work.

Again, I'm not in favour of LIB 10, and I just think, again, it speaks to the narrative or the tone of the report that completely puts a hybrid model to the side. It goes through, again, the witness testimony, how this model could be done safely, how it could work and those types of things.

To go back and have the recommendation be that we just add virtual proceedings without any sort of acknowledgement that a hybrid model can address some of the legal questions or testimony we've heard and the opportunities to help us return back in a safe timeline and manner whenever that may be.... I just don't think the recommendation is acknowledging what's in that section of the report.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

That's a good point.

Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Madam Chair, I'll be brief.

I'd like to make a very small amendment to this recommendation because I realize it doesn't reference during the current pandemic, which I think it really should. It's a concern I have. I think we've heard other members' consistent concerns in that regard, and I want to be mindful of that.

In the second sentence of this particular recommendation, I believe it should say, “during the current pandemic”. I can say where I feel that should be inserted, and I'll read the sentence: “Given the success of current virtual proceedings, this Committee recommends that we move to additional virtual proceedings during the current pandemic for all regular business of the House of Commons.” That's what I would recommend. I think it's important.

To respond to my colleagues' concerns, I do feel we should be acknowledging the incredible amount of progress we've made in an incredibly short period of time. It really feels to me like the House of Commons administration has implemented virtual proceedings so quickly and worked so hard and there's been nothing but, as far as I can tell, very minor frustrations from a relatively few MPs I've heard from. That's been my experience and I certainly feel grateful for all of that work.

This is paying tribute to all of that effort that's gone in. I feel strongly that we need to do that in this report, because otherwise I don't think we're really doing justice to that hard work that's been put in.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

As a reminder to everyone, continue to keep your headphones on so the translators can hear you clearly. I get feedback that things are starting to go a little south and people are not using their mikes.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

I'm sorry, Madam Chair, but my headphones are not working on the computer that I'm using. They were working when I was in my office earlier, but they're not working now. I apologize to the interpreters for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Mr. Brassard.

Go ahead, Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

One of the concerns I have with this recommendation is that it's under the section that talks about a hybrid model for sittings and nowhere in the recommendations do we have anything about hybrid sittings. I'm sorry that I don't have a recommendation. Quite honestly, I think we need to do something about this and make sure there is some more study. I don't know if we want to propose that as something to do in the future, but to have nothing.... It's all about the virtual proceedings. I need a bit of help. I can't support this unless we find a way....

I agree that we've had some good experiences and some not-so-good experiences. I couldn't agree more with Mr. Turnbull, who earlier talked about the amazing work and effort and how quickly we've moved. The people who work for the House of Commons need to be praised enormously for their amount of rigour and for how quickly they've done things to change, but this is a sticking point for me. I need a bit of help as to how we can include a recommendation about hybrid sittings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Maybe Mr. Alghabra will come up with a great suggestion here.

Mr. Alghabra, you're next, and then Madam Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Chair, I have a point of order.

It seems to me that LIB 2 talks about a hybrid Parliament. Am I wrong? We adopted it properly this afternoon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Yes, it's just not in this section. Maybe that's a recommendation Mr. Alghabra is going to make.

We'll hear from Mr. Alghabra, and then, Madam Normandin, if you have something further to say, you can speak to that as well.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

That's not the recommendation I was going to make. I was going to elaborate on what this recommendation means.

Let's not forget that the hybrid model is a spectrum. It's a wide spectrum, and we are at the lower edge of that hybrid right now. In fact, other than regular committees and a special committee of the whole, nothing else has been virtualized. We are at the tip end of the hybrid model, and this recommendation is basically saying what even Ms. Blaney had suggested in one of her recommendations: It's incremental progress. What it recommends is to “move to additional virtual proceedings”. We will still remain within the hybrid model as we add more proceedings into a virtual world.

I hope that clarifies what this recommendation intends to do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Madam Normandin, would you like to speak to this now? No? Okay.

The only substantial revision or amendment that's been made to this recommendation is that “during this pandemic” has been added.

Is there agreement to adopt this recommendation, as amended with that language?

Go ahead, Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

With the modified principle we're using instead of “on division”, we can do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Okay.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Madam Chair, I would prefer to have a recorded vote, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

A recorded vote has been requested.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Is that a recorded vote on the amendment to add the one line? I'm asking for clarification. I want to know what I'm voting for.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

You're going to be voting on recommendation LIB 10, as amended, with the wording “during this pandemic”.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Madam Chair, it was “during the current pandemic”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Okay.

Do you have that, Andre? It's “current” pandemic.

(Text of recommendation as modified agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5 [See Minutes of Proceedings])