Procedure and House Affairs Committee on July 6th, 2020

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Turnbull.

Madame Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

I would like to begin by asking what are the chances, in the very short term, that all 338 members will be back in the House for regular business, for question period, and to express their opinions.

Is it likely that it will happen in the very short term? Is it foreseeable at the moment?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Sadly, predicting the future is not exactly my forte. It is very difficult to say because of COVID-19. It is impossible to predict.

What is foreseen at the moment is a resumption on September 21, depending on what the committee and the House decides. So I have no answer for you.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

But it is possible that, come the fall, the 338 members may still not be able to sit in the House for regular business.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

That is a possibility, yes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay.

Currently, we are operating in a hybrid manner, which allows members who do not want to get on a plane because they are afraid or because they are older, for example, to exercise their parliamentary privileges in spite of everything. The formula in place at very least allows parliamentary privileges to be exercised for a part of regular business.

Is that correct?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Yes.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Right.

If other standing committees required sitting in person, or if we had to establish a voting system that would not allow electronic voting, some of the parliamentary privileges, the regular business, could be exercised virtually. However, if we want to exercise our right to vote, or our ability to sit on a standing committee, we would then have to travel.

Am I right?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Once again, that decision has to be made by the committee and the House. Everything is possible and depends on what we want as members, as a House. It is a decision that we have to make.

At the moment, members can choose whether to attend or not. The committee's decision will determine whether they can participate in the business of the House as such, or can do so from anywhere in the country or around the world.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Let me come back to the matter of cost.

A good part of our work can be done virtually and we continue to participate in the House virtually. But if we insist that members of standing committees sit in person, it will incur costs, because people will have to fly here, right?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

There are costs, yes.

As I told Mr. Tochor earlier, logic tells us yes, but we have to compare the two ways of proceeding.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

For example, if the committee recommended that a designated mechanism be triggered in the event of a pandemic, or in other exceptional circumstances, for regular business that did not include electronic voting, would it not create a disparity between the members who are consistently able to exercise their privilege in the House, because they want to be able to do so virtually, and those who are not able to travel because they are afraid that their health may be affected or that they are avoiding the risk of infection?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

That is a plausible interpretation, a possibility.

If we open that door, I believe that we will have to open it for everyone, so that it is the same for all. When we start doing things for one group only, Parliamentary privilege is breached. It could be a concern for an independent member, for example.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I would like to ask one final question. I am still hammering on the same topic.

If we opt for a system of rules that allows members to participate in the House debates virtually, it would be logical to apply that virtual system to all parliamentary privileges, including sitting on standing committees and voting. If all 338 members are able to be present in the House in the fall, it would be a surprise.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I am looking forward to the committee's direction in that regard. Logically, it is up to members of the committee and to members of Parliament to decide. Your recommendation will have a major influence on what is done in the House.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you.

Madame Blaney, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

I'll go back to the issue of committees. If the House decided that all committees were to be able to meet virtually around September 21, how long would it take for us to get the capacity to do that?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I'll refer that question to Monsieur Aubé, who will probably be able to answer better than I will.

[Stéphan Aubé]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today, I can't answer that. Our goal is to make this assessment over the next weeks to ensure we're ready for that, but we have not finalized that assessment yet, Madam Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you. That's helpful.

Ms. May mentioned earlier the provincial British Columbia government and the work they're doing and how much collaboration...that was very clear from the testimony we had.

One of the areas I found most compelling was the issue of testing and the ability of members from all parties to participate in the testing process so that questions could be asked and any concerns could be brought forward. Especially when we look at the diversity of our MPs from across Canada, I think that testing should be done and of course everyone should be able to participate and give feedback.

As we move forward, I'm wondering what kind of plans have been thought about in terms of potentially looking at the app process and testing that, and any other form of voting or work in the House. What are the plans for that? Do you have any direction on where we're going in that area?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I'll defer to Monsieur Aubé on this one, because it's more on the technical...on the app.

What we've done so far is looking at the different possibilities, based on what has been asked of us, and coming up with different possibilities. You'll see in the report quite a number of different ones, whether it's in person, virtual, or a hybrid.

I'll pass it on to Mr. Aubé to answer the question on the app and where it's at.

[Stéphan Aubé]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Madam Blaney, I support the direction you're going in with your question.

As the Speaker said, what we have right now is a tool box. These are elements to deal with identification, notification and reporting. What we need to do now is make it a product that is usable by the members, and to do that there will definitely need to be some consultations with a subset of members to finalize the requirements. There will also need to be some end-user testing to make sure it is usable and efficient while we're using the app. Then, finally, we also need to make sure it works in the different regions with the limited bandwidth that exists in some areas.

This type of testing and finalizing of the requirements will be happening in the next few weeks, if we are asked to move forward with such an initiative. At this stage, all we want to do is ensure readiness. If ever they decide to go with it, we can start running with the members at the same time in order to be ready for the fall.