Procedure and House Affairs Committee on July 6th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Just to follow up on my last line of questioning, does the Speaker feel that the amount of time for bells is sufficient for voting in a virtual sitting?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

It's really up to the House. What was suggested was 30 minutes, and it's during that 30 minutes that the member has to vote. It's not like in the House, where you have 30 minutes of warning, and then you're in the House and you vote.

You are told there's going to be a vote, and the bells ring for 30 minutes. Once that 30 minutes is up, your voting time is up. Yes, that's something that was suggested. I feel comfortable with it. If the committee should feel that we need more than 30 minutes, or less than 30 minutes, really, it's not a time that is carved in stone. It's a suggested time that seems reasonable. Reasonable means different things to different people. I would rely on the committee's and Parliament's advice on how we would determine the amount of time.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'm going to follow up as well on the issue of committees. Right now, there's a particular list of committees that can meet virtually, and the rest, if they want to meet, have to meet in person. There are ongoing negotiations among the parties, as everyone knows. Can I get any information to understand if we will have the capacity for all the committees to be able to meet?

I understand that part of the challenge, historically, has just been the capacity, and also the time constraints, because we have a big country with multiple time zones, so we are trying to pick times when members like myself who are in British Columbia are not sitting in front of a computer at 5:30 in the morning. We're trying to honour that.

Will the capacity be there in September for all the committees to be able to sit?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

That is one of the things that have been restricting the number of committees that can sit.

On capacity, if you don't mind, I will pass it over to Mr. Aubé, who would have a better handle on what it would take. Or would Mr. Gagnon be better? Which one of you would be best to answer this question?

[André Gagnon, Deputy Clerk, Procedure, House of Commons]

Maybe I can begin and Stéphan can follow up.

The special order that was adopted by the House on May 26, which was essentially a reorder of the order as previously adopted, mentioned that some committees, about nine, would be able to meet virtually. That special order ends on September 21. Your question, from that perspective, would relate directly to what happens on September 21, in terms of what committees would be meeting. From that perspective, with the information we have right now, that means the committees would have the possibility to meet only in person.

Maybe Stéphan can add to that, but as you are aware, the number of rooms that would meet the health guidelines is fairly limited on Parliament Hill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you. That's all the time we have.

Next up we have Mr. Tochor for six minutes, please.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you to our guests.

I have a question for the Speaker, and it has to do with travel. I know you've been an MP for a while, and you don't have a medical background, I believe, but would you agree that if we're concerned about the safety of members, we shouldn't be heading back to our ridings on weekends and in between our sitting dates?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

That's an option that has been discussed by many people, whether they stay here on the weekend or go home. The less exposure you have, the better it is. That's up to each individual member to decide, unfortunately.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Even before the pandemic, we would take steps. If we know we're going to be in a room with or close to people who are sick, we take precautions. That's what we should be doing in our personal lives and business representing our constituencies in Ottawa.

I have some questions about the app, Mr. Aubé. With the app you're developing right now, could you tell if a member was on a beach in Mexico when they were voting?

[Stéphan Aubé]

We could, sir.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Could you tell where they were in the country? Would we restrict if a member was across the street from Parliament in a licensed establishment having a beverage? Could you tell where that individual was?

[Stéphan Aubé]

I wouldn't say that we'd go to that level of detail, but I would certainly say that we have a requirement to monitor where the House of Commons devices are used. We monitor from a regional perspective. I wouldn't say that we get down to that level of granularity.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

It's actually interesting that you bring up devices. I have the iPhone that was issued from the Government of Canada. Could you track right now where I was?

[Stéphan Aubé]

We don't track, sir, where you were. We can just track the location of where you are as per the device. We don't archive all the locations of where you are. We track to make sure that the devices that are participating in these events are within the guidelines that we've set for these meetings. As I said earlier in a previous meeting of this committee, we do geofencing, which means we ensure that the people who are participating in these meetings are within the areas that are allowed.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Then the technology is there, on the hardware, to track where members are. As much as you say you geofence and take precautionary measures against abuse, you could track, on my iPhone, that I am right now sitting in my riding office. Is that correct?

[Stéphan Aubé]

We could identify where you are. I wouldn't commit to saying that you are in that particular office, because we don't do that as per our security practices, but we certainly ensure that you are in a specific area or region.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Okay.

I'll change gears a little bit. Right now, obviously, as a committee we don't have consensus. However, from reading the body language and testimony and questions for the last few months, I believe that a proxy voting system would possibly have consensus across all parties.

To the Speaker, on September 21—without spending another dollar of taxpayers' money, because I know we're spending a lot right now—if we just implemented proxy voting handled by the whips, are there any thoughts as to whether that would be ready to go sooner than September 21?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

A very simple, straightforward method.... What we would need is a decision, and then it would be implemented. It's fairly straightforward and simple. The question is, do individual members feel that having one person vote for them is acceptable? That would be the main question that I would bring up or think about.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

You're saying it would be acceptable if all members felt comfortable doing that. It would not involve any taxpayer dollars spent on it, and we could run it next week with minimal changes to the Standing Orders.

I still have questions as to why we're spending taxpayers' dollars on an app that may never be used, hopefully. If it is used, a consensus over changing the Standing Orders would have to be found, and I don't think we're going to find that.

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I'd have to defer to someone on the cost of a proxy vote. I'm not sure what would be involved costwise. We've looked at different options. As staff and the Speaker's office, we are looking at what members want, and what we're able to do.

Maybe I could defer to Mr. Gagnon or Mr. Robert for the costs on a proxy vote.

[Charles Robert]

It's really just a decision of the House as to how they want to manage a voting system. Proxy or block voting is just basically a decision. You're quite right to point it out that way.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

So that would be the most affordable one, and we're going with the most expensive option out there, which is developing an electronic voting system. Is that accurate, Mr. Speaker?

[Anthony Rota, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

When we're given direction, we want to make sure we have the best system available.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

At this point, we're at the five-minute mark, and I was just informed by the clerk a little while ago.... I just want to get permission from the committee members to start right off the top of the rounds again, because that's what I had in my mind. Generally, when we have extra time after our first round, we go back from the five-minute mark, which is the middle, after the first set where each party goes, but I think it would give each party a little more time if we go right back to the beginning, and we do have enough time to do that this time.

How do the members feel about whether we start back at the six-minute round or just from the five-minute mark?

My second point is that Ms. May apparently has another meeting to attend, and she was wondering if she could have a few minutes of time.

Okay, so we're starting off from the top. Mr. Tochor just had his six minutes, and next we'll hear from Ms. May.

Ms. May has one question, I understand, and then we'll carry on with our regular order.

Thank you, Ms. May. Go ahead with your one question.