Evidence of meeting #12 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pandemic.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
The Clerk
Yes. I apologize.
Members of the committee, the question before the committee is to proceed in camera at this point.
(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota
Although the motion was defeated, I do think the issue is very important, and we'll definitely be calling the witnesses back so that we can have a fulsome discussion on it. Hopefully, the whips can help us out and we can have it before the winter break so that these very timely issues can be discussed.
Next up we have Mr. Turnbull for five minutes.
I think we can get the second round in with the amount of time we have left before the next panel.
Noon
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thanks to all the witnesses for their patience.
I really appreciate you being here. Wow. What incredible work you've done. I don't know how you've managed it. I see that some of you still do not have a full head of grey hair, and I am shocked and surprised, given the challenges you've had to overcome in service to all of us for us to be able to operate at this time. I just want to acknowledge that, as my colleague Mr. Alghabra did, but I really feel strongly that I have to state that outright. I really admire the work you've done. Thank you for your leadership.
I want to ask you a few budgetary-related questions, because that really is supposed to be the focus of our discussion today. That's my understanding.
In terms of the cost of living increases, Mr. Speaker, and the contributions to employee benefit plans, can you speak to the statutory requirements? Those are not budget increases based on some discretion that you have. I believe they're requirements. Could you speak to that?
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
The statutory increases happen regardless of what happens. The 1.9% is a standard increase. It does compensate for cost of living. They're not voted on; they're put in place. That is just pretty well standard.
I can pass it to Mr. Paquette, who can maybe go into a little bit more detail on the way it functions. I believe you described it quite well. That's the way it works.
Mr. Paquette.
12:05 p.m.
Chief Financial Officer, House of Commons
It's exactly that. Being statutory, they are in the acts themselves and we don't need to review them annually. The cost of living indexes are done for various items that are either for the operating budgets for the members or their sessional allowances in all this, so that we can move forward and the money is available for them.
On the other side, the other statutory item there is all the benefits relating to those various salaries, be it for members, members' employees or the House administration. It's about 15.5% that we add to this. We have to pay for the employer's share of pension plans, the employer's share of the health benefits and all the other benefits that are made available to employees. That is a rate that we must pay that is transferred to the central agencies to be able to absorb this.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thank you very much for that clarification. To me, these are standard items that just go without saying.
It was brought up before about capacity. I realize that we've expanded the capacity in a hybrid setting to operate committees and caucuses virtually. I know there have still been some challenges around securing the necessary interpretation and translation capacity. I understand that it's a human resource issue.
Is anything being done on that front and is there a budget implication?
Mr. Speaker, maybe I can put that to you and you can direct it to whoever is best to answer that one.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
The challenge has certainly been having the right people. Our people have worked quite long hours and they have acquired further resources.
To elaborate on that, I'll pass it over to Mr. Aubé, who can tell us a little bit more about what's been going on in the background. Again, it's what's going on in the background. When you go into the bowels of the IT department and find out what's happening, you really grow to appreciate the work and the overtime and the hours that have gone into making sure that everything works well.
I've spoken to a number of speakers from around the world. We are the envy of the world. It has been working out very well for us, thanks to their hard work.
Mr. Aubé.
12:05 p.m.
Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Turnbull, for the question.
As you know, the interpretation services are provided by Public Works to the House of Commons as a service. We have been in dialogue with them because they understood through the summer that we needed to go back to pre-pandemic levels from a committee and a caucus perspective.
Having said that, through our discussions with them it was clearly identified to us that they are having a human resource issue. It's the availability and capacity of resources here in Ottawa for them to be able offer the services to us. They are looking at different scenarios to actually have access to different resources across Canada.
I would not say that it is a funding issue, Mr. Turnbull. The issue is more linked to the availability and capacity of resources for them in order to expand the services that we require here on the Hill.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
You have the budget that you need to expand that human resource capacity if needed. It is needed and it sounds like you're in the midst of solving that issue. You do have the financial resources, right?
12:10 p.m.
Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons
I've not been told by PSPC that they have a budgeting issue. They've actually allocated more funds to try to recruit more people. The showstopper is not the budget for them.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
12:10 p.m.
Bloc
Alain Therrien Bloc La Prairie, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I've lost track of it all a bit, with the discussions that took place after the presentation of my situation. Forgive me if I repeat things. With regard to COVID-19, you have additional expenses, but on the other hand, there is some money saved because there are fewer members in the House. However, there are more technological tools and health regulations to be respected.
When you look at the current and projected expenditures related to COVID-19, the expenditures are, in my opinion, higher than might have been originally imagined, as well as higher expenditures than savings resulting from fewer members in the House.
I'd like to hear your views on both the additional costs and savings associated with COVID-19.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
That's a good question.
I'll ask Mr. Paquette to respond. He'll be able to do so very precisely.
12:10 p.m.
Chief Financial Officer, House of Commons
We ask ourselves this question every day to make sure we have the resources and capacity to serve you.
If you look at the additional disbursements we made during the pandemic for equipment, hardware, connectivity and so on, it's just over $3.5 million. These are large amounts, but a lot of work has been done to enable virtual work and so on.
On the one hand, we have reallocated existing resources to help support change in this environment. We reduced the investments we had planned. In some cases, this involved certain updates or renewal of our technology tools and internal projects. We're trying to find the balance.
On the other hand, the savings are quite significant, as far as travel is concerned. We're talking about nearly $9 million in travel savings. You have to be careful, because $5 million of that is a statutory budget that I cannot deploy elsewhere. However, if you look at the committees, the associations and the House Administration, including travel, we still see fairly significant amounts that are approaching $4 million.
The savings also include all equipment and supplies for our printing department, which was closed for a while. In addition, as the operations of restaurants, cafeterias, committees and other events on the Hill have decreased, there is no need to purchase equipment for these services.
Looking at trends, there are even more savings than expenditures because of COVID-19, because we've made an adjustment to allocate resources elsewhere.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you very much.
I want to return to the earlier question about the voting app.
I know that members of the House administration said they were consulting with the parties on that. But I also want to emphasize, even though I'm not one of them, that a number of members don't belong to the recognized parties in the House of Commons, and it is important that the voting system works for them as well.
I'm wondering what kind of consultation has happened with them to get their feedback on the voting app, and how it might work or not work for them as members who aren't supported by a party whip's office.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
That's a very good question. I know the staff has been very thorough. Mr. Gagnon has been taking care of that. I will pass it on to him, and he can answer it.
12:10 p.m.
Deputy Clerk, Procedure, House of Commons
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Blaikie.
Indeed, members of the unrecognized party are also quite interested in the voting application, and also in the way we've been managing hybrid sittings. My office is specifically in charge of connecting on a daily basis, if not more frequently, indeed many times a day, with the different members of Parliament, either from the Green Party or independent members.
The motion that was adopted in September directed the House administration to work very closely with the recognized party to ensure the development of a voting application. That has taken place. That is why you have heard of discussions taking place with the different parties. That said, we are keeping the members of the Green Party and the independent members aware of any development that will take place, including for instance, very important onboarding and training sessions. We have done so, for instance, when some simulations were taking place to ensure the Zoom voting.
So, yes, we are in very direct discussions with independent members and the Green Party.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
If I could add to that just for a moment, right from the beginning, my biggest concern with the change in practices and going to the COVID-19 measures was to make sure that all members, regardless of party, had their privileges protected and be able to express their privileges. That's something the House has said and the staff has taken very much to heart, and is considered in any move that we do make.