Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 16th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you for keeping track. That was exact.

Minister Rodriguez, thank you so much for taking time out to be with us today.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I'd just like to say thank you to all the members.

I thank you all.

See you in the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Goodbye, and thank you again.

Mr. Sutherland, Mr. Booth, do you have opening remarks as well?

[Allen Sutherland, Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Office of the Deputy Secretary to Cabinet (Governance), Privy Council Office]

I do, Madam Chair. Thank you for that opening.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Please go ahead.

[Allen Sutherland]

Thank you for the invitation to participate in the meeting.

As you mentioned, I'm with Don Booth, who, as mentioned earlier, is my director of policy and is the Canadian secretary to the Queen, so he has one of the more interesting job titles and roles in the Canadian public service.

We read with great interest...and there was some allusion during the first part of the meeting to the committee meeting of January 28, which I found very interesting. Sometimes I feel that our democratic practices are less understood than they should be, so it was really heartening to hear some very thoughtful reflections from your witnesses, though I would note that given their quality, it's not really surprising that professors like professors Brodie, Cyr, Lagassé and Turnbull were very thoughtful on this subject.

In their presentations, the professors laid down the fundamentals of the exercise of the royal prerogative as it is practised in Canada. This included such principles as the Prime Minister having the authority to advise the Governor General to prorogue Parliament, which was mentioned by several of the professors; that under the principles of accountable government, the Governor General must act on this advice, which was mentioned most explicitly by Professor Brodie; and that in the history of Canada, a Prime Minister's request to prorogue Parliament has never been denied, which I believe was mentioned by Professor Turnbull.

During his presentation just now, Minister Rodriguez elaborated on the government's reasons for proroguing. He made reference to the Prime Minister's August press conference announcing prorogation, and I believe there was even a mention of the government's report that was tabled in October titled “Report to Parliament: August 2020 Prorogation—COVID-19 pandemic”, which was an innovation and was the first time this sort of thing had been done.

I think where Don and I can usefully build on the foundation of knowledge that's already been established is on the mechanics of proroguing. How does it happen within the system? We're also in a position to lay out some of the streams of work that are initiated within the system when prorogation occurs; that is, how the public service responds to proroguing.

On the “how” of proroguing, there are a number of steps. In brief, the Governor General's authority to prorogue Parliament is set out in the “Letters Patent Constituting the Office of Governor General of Canada”, 1947. It's in section VI for those who wish to look it up. Normally, when it is clear that the government intends to prorogue, the Governor General is made aware that a formal request from the PM will be forthcoming. PCO seeks formal PM direction regarding the intended date of prorogation as well as the date for resummoning the House. With that PM direction, PCO drafts an instrument of advice and a proclamation for the Governor General's approval. Once approved by Her Excellency, the proclamation is published in the Canada Gazette. That's essentially the process that was followed.

On the prorogation in August, the public service kicked into gear to frame up the Speech from the Throne—and there was some discussion in the first part of this session on that—which was delivered on September 23, upon the return of the House after prorogation. This essentially engaged the priorities and planning group at PCO and involved considerable interdepartmental work to identify initiatives and themes, as well as to consider iterative work with the Prime Minister's Office.

As the minister mentioned, there was also a consultation process. The main themes of the Speech from the Throne, “A Stronger and More Resilient Canada”, were the following: protecting Canadians from COVID-19, as the minister mentioned; helping Canadians through the pandemic; building back better; having a resiliency agenda for the middle class; and achieving the Canada we're fighting for, which had a real social justice, fairness and equity dimension to it. These themes from the Speech from the Throne were also prominent in the fall economic statement and also cascaded through to the supplementary mandate letters, which were released on January 15, 2021.

As you may know, the mandate letters are the Prime Minister's marching instructions to his ministry and the public service. In these letters, the Prime Minister explicitly addressed the pandemic and reiterated four key themes for the government going forward, which will sound very similar to what was in the Speech from the Throne because they were built off of it: protecting public health, ensuring a strong economic recovery, promoting a cleaner environment, and standing up for fairness and equality.

Having laid out briefly how prorogation is initiated and, in broad strokes, how it impacts the work of the public service, Don and I would be happy to take your questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you so much.

We'll begin with Ms. Vecchio for six minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Actually, I believe that we can go on to Peter Kent for this. Peter should be next, and then I'll be after that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Sure.

Go ahead, Mr. Kent.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Sutherland and Mr. Booth. We send our best regards to Clerk Shugart as he deals with his health problems.

[Allen Sutherland]

Thank you.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Did the Privy Council Office recommend prorogation, or was the PCO simply told after discussions that prorogation would occur?

[Allen Sutherland]

To my knowledge the Privy Council Office was asked. Advice was requested of us on the “how” of prorogation, not on whether to prorogue.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

When you were told about the prorogation, did you caution the Prime Minister that the sensitive work being done by committees would be lost with prorogation?

[Allen Sutherland]

It would have been well understood that proroguing the House would set in motion impacts on the committees, less so on private member's bills, but also on order paper questions, so that full suite of impacts would have been well known.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

On what day was the trigger pulled? On what day was the Governor General notified to be prepared to meet the Prime Minister to answer his decision to prorogue?

[Allen Sutherland]

I'm sorry, Mr. Kent. I can't give you an exact answer, but it's typically the case that it's just before. Months do not pass, nor even weeks. It would have been in the lead-up to the 19th, I guess.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

The Governor General was quick to respond and made herself available almost immediately.

[Allen Sutherland]

She made herself available.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Can you tell us how long the meeting between the Prime Minister and the Governor General lasted?

[Allen Sutherland]

I cannot.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

We know that while the point was made, you mentioned that prorogation has never been denied by a Governor General. We do know that in some instances the Governor General pressed the Prime Minister of the day to justify and to explain, sometimes to the extent of more than an hour's discussion.

[Allen Sutherland]

That's correct. I know what you're referring to.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

The Prime Minister made the announcement on August 18, only hours after Minister Freeland had been sworn in as the new finance minister. Was the Governor General aware at that time that she would be asked to prorogue Parliament hours later?

[Allen Sutherland]

I'm trying to remember. I cannot be certain, but I think that sequence is quite likely.