Evidence of meeting #26 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was prorogation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
Liberal
Noon
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
I raise my hand to be the last one after that.
Noon
The Clerk
Yes, Mr. Lauzon. That's the order I have as well.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota
Everyone can go ahead and drop their hands in the toolbar. That way there's no more confusion there. We have Mr. Long, Dr. Duncan, Mr. Blaikie, Mr. Turnbull and then we have Mr. Lauzon.
After people are done speaking, they can raise their hand again, and they would go down to the bottom of the list.
Dr. Duncan.
Noon
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I know my colleague Mr. Turnbull is always so gracious. I'm not sure that [Technical difficulty—Editor] hasn't ceded the floor, because I think he wanted to be generous to his colleague. I don't want him now to have to wait a very long time. I think it's only fair and equitable, since there was this confusion, that we ask Mr. Turnbull if he wants to speak now.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota
You're right. We should hear from Mr. Turnbull. I guess even Mr. Blaikie said that unless Mr. Turnbull has more remarks to make at this time....
We can hear from you, Mr. Turnbull, as to whether you'd like to continue.
Noon
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Madam Chair, my intention was to give the floor to Mr. Long, my colleague. I didn't realize that, by your having a list of speakers from a previous meeting, I wasn't able to raise my hand in another meeting. I didn't do that on purpose. I just figured that made sense, given that we were starting a new meeting.
To Mr. Blaikie's point, if he wants to go before me, that's fine. I'm not going to argue this point much further. I will turn the floor over to Mr. Long, and I will await my turn after Mr. Blaikie.
Thank you very much.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota
Just to clarify, at the top of every meeting I will remind everyone who's on the speakers list that if we are in a situation like today, where we suspended, the meeting essentially continues on from where we left off in the last one. It doesn't start a new speakers list. It would just carry on.
For carrying on, we won't have people raise their hands twice or be on that list twice until they're struck off that list, and then they can go back on the list once they're struck off.
Noon
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
On that point, Madam Chair, I'm indifferent as to where I am in the speaking order. I just don't want to adopt a poor practice for establishing a speakers list.
It's important to note that we're in the same meeting, which is why we start off with the continued speakers list. The meeting never ended; it was suspended.
If the committee would like to adopt a practice whereby we wipe clean the speakers list at the beginning of any iteration of the same meeting, I'm fine with that, too. That might have allowed me to get on the speakers list sooner, in fact, because then we could have had a race to see who could click the button faster. If the committee wants to proceed in that fashion, that's not a problem for me either.
I'm not hung up on the order. What I'm hung up on is that everybody should have a clear understanding of how a speakers list works and that we follow it, so that we don't get into some odd practices around jockeying on the speakers list.
If it's really important to Mr. Turnbull to go ahead of me in the order, perhaps he could elaborate for the committee why that's important. I'd be happy to have him on the list ahead of me, because I don't think anything hinges on the order except the potential misunderstanding of how speakers lists work and what the practice going forward is going to be.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota
I think Mr. Turnbull has made it clear that he doesn't really have a preference. It was just an understanding issue, and we've all helped to clarify that.
We will carry on with the regular practice of continuing when a meeting is suspended. We would just continue with the speakers list from the previous meeting. At the beginning of the meeting, I'll let you know who I have on the speakers list. If you don't see or find your name on the speakers list but you would like to speak, then use the “raise hand” function in the toolbar. I'll add you to the bottom of the speakers list. If you wish to speak again afterwards, when you're done speaking, raise your hand again and you'll be added to the bottom of the speakers list.
Mr. Long, go ahead. The floor is yours.
Noon
Liberal
Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB
Madam Chair, thank you very much. I almost lost my train of thought for the last five minutes. I was a little worried, but I kept my concentration. Again, Madam Chair, thank you for giving me the floor.
I certainly want to acknowledge MP Turnbull and MP Lauzon for their really interesting speeches. I learned a lot from listening. I think as parliamentarians it's important that we remember the old adage that we measure twice and cut once. I think this is one of those times when we can all learn by listening to our colleagues, being open to different thoughts and different ideas, and continuing to evolve as politicians.
I certainly have evolved over the last six years. I remember starting in 2015. Obviously, looking back now, I was a naive, green rookie member who thought he knew a lot. I thought I knew how committees worked, how Parliament worked, how Ottawa worked and so on and so forth. Boy, oh, boy, I did not know a lot. Have I ever learned.
We can all step back and reflect a little bit on why we were elected. Why are we here? What's important to Canadians? What do we need to do to work together across the aisle, to make government work, to make Parliament work? How do we better serve Canadians?
To be perfectly honest, I have a lot to say today. I have a lot of thoughts. Last night I watched the movie Inception. I don't know if anybody has seen Inception with Leonardo DiCaprio. There was one layer that went to the next layer that went to the next layer and then down to the next layer. Then they had to work their way back up. I think there were a lot of parallels to what's happening now.
Certainly, I respect very much the amendment, if you will, to the motion that my colleague MP Turnbull has brought forward. I certainly acknowledge the motion that MP Vecchio has put forth. If you'll bear with me here, I think it's important to go back and just take a few minutes to really understand where we're at and why we're there. Certainly, again, my friend and colleague MP Turnbull talked about a fishing expedition—let's see what we can find, the proroguing, WE, the Kielburger brothers and all these things. Let me give a very quick example, and I'll get back to the amendment.
I had the distinct pleasure yesterday of calling organizations in my beautiful riding of Saint John—Rothesay and giving them great news about the new horizons for seniors program. This is just as an example. Whether it was the Hope centre or Loch Lomond Villa or the Rothesay Elementary School, it didn't matter what the organization was that I called. One organization is doing a greenhouse to bring seniors together. Another one, the Saint John regional library, did a new horizons for seniors program that allowed seniors to come in to write a book together about their experiences.
The point of bringing up the new horizons for seniors program and the great calls I made to these organizations is that they didn't care about us in committee trying to debate prorogation and WE. They were sincerely appreciative that our government was working with them to deliver funding for them and programs for them. That's what good government is.
It's about our coming up with programs that can help people and change people's lives. Whether it's new horizons for seniors or—and I'll bring this back to the motion—obviously for the pandemic we're going through, coming up with wonderful programs such as the wage subsidy, CERB, the expanded EI, sick leave or the caregiver benefit, that's what Canadians want us to do. They want us to deliver programs for them. That's why they elected us.
I did a quick poll yesterday. I'll be honest. It was for 10 people, maybe 9. I asked them what they were concerned about, what they wanted me to do, how they wanted me to be an advocate for them and what they wanted me to bring forward for them to the government in Ottawa. Again, it was to represent them and what they care about and what they need. It's not about sitting in a committee trying to talk about proroguing. Again, Canadians have moved on, and I feel we should move on too.
I know that there are a lot of Canadians watching this today, listening in and wondering what we're talking about. I go back to the Inception movie, where one layer goes to the next, goes to the next and then to the next. Certainly, MP Turnbull has brought forth an amendment for the record and for everybody. The amendment is to MP Vecchio's motion.
If you'll indulge me, I think it's important that we revisit what MP Vecchio's motion was.
Noon
Conservative
Karen Vecchio Conservative Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON
On a point of order, we're supposed to be doing the subamendment, so maybe we could speak about the subamendment. I've been listening to an hour and a bit of just talk, so I'd love to talk about the subamendment. Then we can go back to the main motion, which you can continue to filibuster.
Thank you.
Noon
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
On a point of order, Chair. It's actually an amendment, not a subamendment. I want to make that clear for the committee.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota
The amendment will have an effect on the full motion. To the point that you want to speak to the effect that it would have if it passes or fails, I guess you could stick to that.
Noon
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
I'm sorry, Madam Chair. I'm looking for a point of clarification. I think part of this may stem from the fact that I wasn't here for most of the meeting yesterday.
My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that Ms. Vecchio moved an amendment and then Mr. Turnbull moved to amend the amendment. Is that...?
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota
No. Actually, I understand where that's coming from, though. Ms. Vecchio did, on a point of order, attempt to inform us or.... I don't know if she was trying to move the amendment, but she did put notice of an amendment she would like, of a motion, actually, of an amendment to her own motion, but that wasn't in order because she didn't have the floor to move it.
The appropriately moved amendment that's before us right now is Mr. Turnbull's amendment to Ms. Vecchio's original motion. Ms. Vecchio doesn't have any amendments that we're speaking to right now. She may at some point wish to move an amendment later on.
Noon
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota
Is there anybody else? Are there any more points of clarification before we give the floor back to Mr. Long? I don't want to interrupt him every 30—
Noon
Conservative
Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON
Madam Chair, it was my understanding that Ms. Vecchio was presenting a unanimous consent motion, which didn't exist....