Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number four of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

I'd like to start the meeting by providing you with some information following the motion that was adopted in the House on Wednesday, September 23, 2020.

The committee is now sitting in a hybrid format, meaning that members can participate either in person or by video conference. Witnesses must appear by video conference. All members, regardless of their method of participation, will be counted for the the purpose of quorum. The committee's power to sit is, however, limited by the priority use of the House resources, which is determined by the whips. All questions must be decided by a recorded vote unless the committee disposes of them with unanimous consent or on division. Finally, the committee may deliberate in camera, provided that it takes into account the potential risks to confidentiality inherent in such deliberations with remote participants.

Today's proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. I remind members that the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

To ensure an orderly meeting I'd like to outline a few rules to follow. For those participating virtually, members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either floor, English or French. Before speaking, click on the microphone icon to activate your own mike. When you are done speaking, please put your mike on mute to minimize any interference. I remind members that all comments made by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. Should members need to request the floor outside of their designated speaking time for questions, they should activate their mike and state that they have a point of order. If a member wishes to intervene on a point of order that has been raised by another member, they should use the “raise hand” function in the toolbar below. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. Unless there are exceptional circumstances, the use of headsets with a boom microphone is mandatory for everyone participating remotely. Should any technical challenges arise, please advise the chair. Please note that we may need to suspend for a few minutes to ensure that all members are able to participate fully.

For those participating in person today, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Should you wish to get my attention, signal me with a hand gesture, or at an appropriate time you can call my name. Should you wish to raise a point of order, wait for an appropriate time and indicate to me clearly that you wish to raise a point of order.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do our best to maintain a consolidated speaking order for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

As I said, today is meeting number four of the procedure and House affairs committee. It's Thursday, October 22, and today we have Elections Canada witnesses before us so that we can start our study off right. We have Mr. Stéphane Perrault, the Chief Electoral Officer; Michel Roussel, deputy chief electoral officer for electoral events and innovation; and Anne Lawson, deputy chief electoral officer of regulatory affairs, who has been before this committee many times.

Before we start with opening statements, I do want to let the committee know that the other witnesses we have contacted so far are the New Brunswick chief electoral officer and the Prince Edward Island chief electoral officer. They are currently conducting a by-election with special COVID-19 provisions. We have also contacted the Saskatchewan chief electoral officer. They have all responded positively and wish to come before the committee on October 27, which is next Tuesday's meeting. Hopefully the members will be pleased to know that we have a fair number of witnesses who are already interested in coming before the committee.

With that said, we will give our witnesses five minutes for introductory remarks.

Monsieur Perrault.

[Stéphane Perrault, Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll try to be brief.

Thanks for this opportunity to speak today with the committee regarding my recommendations for legislative change in the event of a federal election during a pandemic.

Elections Canada has been working in consultation with public health authorities to develop an operational approach to delivering an election during a pandemic. This includes several measures currently being implemented in the by-elections under way in Toronto Centre and York Centre, such as physical distancing measures at the polls and, of course, the distribution of protective equipment for poll workers and voters as well.

The act provides the authority for me to make a number of adjustments to the electoral process to facilitate these measures, and I'd be happy to talk about that later on. However, there are a small number of areas where legislative change is, in my view, desirable.

First I am recommending replacing ordinary polling day, which is Monday of course, with a two-day polling period on Saturday and Sunday. Instead of a single 12-hour polling day, electors would have the opportunity to vote over two eight-hour days, and we can come back to those hours later on. This would allow for a steadier flow of electors over two weekend days, encouraging physical distancing, as opposed to the clustering of electors that takes place at the polls at the start and finish of a Monday workday.

Weekend voting would also assist in securing polling locations such as schools, and in recruiting the very large number of poll workers who are required to run a federal election. For some electors and candidates, weekend voting may be in conflict with days of religious significance. However, the two-day period, in addition to other voting options, would provide flexibility.

As a result of weekend voting, I'm recommending certain related changes to the advance polling days and hours. I'm not going to get into this in my remarks, but perhaps we can come back to that.

I also suggest that mail-in ballots be accepted until 6 p.m. eastern time on the Monday immediately following weekend voting, provided that they were mailed before the close of polls on the weekend. This would account for the fact that mail is typically not delivered on the weekend and that we expect to receive large numbers of mail-in ballots.

A second major element that I recommend addressing in legislation is voting in long-term care facilities. I am seeking flexibility to allow Elections Canada to work with long-term care facilities across the country to deliver tailored voting services that suit their unique circumstances, which may vary considerably from one location to another.

Now I'll switch to French.

The third and final element I am recommending relates to my power under the act to adapt its provisions in case of an emergency. Currently, this power may only be exercised for limited purposes. I am requesting greater flexibility to adapt the act as needed in the pandemic context in order to handle unexpected situations that will inevitably arise.

I have opted to limit my recommendations to a small number of changes that are directly related to the delivery of an election in a pandemic and have stayed away from any other recommendations that may require more extensive debate. I will be submitting a second recommendations report in due course to deal with other improvements to the act, unrelated to the pandemic.

Although the recommendations I have outlined today are limited in scope, their implementation nevertheless requires changes to operational processes and IT systems that will require some time, and will, especially, have to be rigorously tested. Therefore, I urge Parliament to swiftly consider them.

In order to assist the committee, you will also see that I have submitted model legislation that could accomplish these objectives?a temporary statute that would supersede or adapt some of the provisions of the Canada Elections Act only for the next general election, leaving the electoral regime unchanged once the pandemic period is behind us.

Finally, I note in closing that the act currently provides for an election period lasting between 37 and 51 days. I have not recommended any change. However, if an election is called during the pandemic, I strongly encourage the government to set the longest possible election period. I would say that of all the points I mentioned today, the length of the election period is the most important factor in achieving success. This would not only assist Elections Canada in dealing with the logistical challenges of a pandemic election, such as the hiring and training of workers, but also allow time for the processing and mail delivery of the several million mail-in ballots that we can expect in a general election during the pandemic.

Madam Chair, I would be pleased to answer questions from committee members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, including for providing us with your opening remarks in advance.

We'll start with the first round of questions. The first round will be six minutes each, and we will be starting with Todd Doherty, please.

Is Mr. Doherty here?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Yes, I am.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

There you are, yes.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thanks, Madam Chair.

Mr. Perrault, have you consulted with the Prime Minister on how a snap election would be conducted?

[Stéphane Perrault]

No, I have not consulted with the Prime Minister in that regard. I have spoken with Dr. Tam of the Public Health Agency of Canada and had discussions with the Privy Council Office. In the spring or early summer, if I remember correctly, I spoke with the minister responsible for democratic institutions.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

What concerns did Dr. Tam have with respect to a snap election's being called?

[Stéphane Perrault]

We didn't discuss specific concerns. We talked about the necessity of ensuring that the measures we would take to deal with the health circumstances were appropriate and that our teams worked closely together in that regard. That is, in fact, what has happened.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Should the government have fallen yesterday, how prepared would you have been to go immediately into an election?

[Stéphane Perrault]

I think we have to be honest here: A national election is a logistical feat in the best of circumstances, and these are not the best of circumstances.

That said, we would have delivered an election. It would, in my view, have been a successful election, and it would have included all of the health and safety measures that have been recommended to us and that we have prepared for.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Have you met with your provincial counterparts who have either undertaken an election during this pandemic or are currently in an election cycle now?

[Stéphane Perrault]

I have, indeed, spoken with the chief electoral officers of New Brunswick, Saskatchewan and British Columbia.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Have they provided you with any reports at all on the challenges they have faced?

[Stéphane Perrault]

Well, we certainly have shared our perspectives on the challenges that we are facing. I spoke with the chief electoral officer of New Brunswick after their election, who was able to share some morning-after insights on her experience there, yes.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

A pandemic election would obviously increase the number of mail-in ballots—as you said, the millions of votes that would be required to come through the mail-in process. Have you consulted with Canada Post about its ability to process mailed ballots on a larger scale given an election cycle?

[Stéphane Perrault]

We have an ongoing relationship with Canada Post, and Monsieur Roussel and his team have been speaking with Canada Post in that regard.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Is there a specific plan?

[Stéphane Perrault]

There is no particular concern with the delivery of mail. I understand that there have been some challenges with packages and parcels delivery, but not with the delivery of mail.

One of the plans we have is the MOU we signed to make sure that we can have prepaid postal delivery of the envelopes. We have an agreement with Canada Post in that regard.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Do you have any concerns with mass mail-in balloting in Canada in ensuring the safety and security of the electoral process?

[Stéphane Perrault]

I don't have concerns about the safety and security of mail-in ballots. I have to recognize that this is a challenge. We have a system in Canada where mail-in ballots for local electors is extremely exceptional. In the last election, we had 5,000 or so Canadians mail in their ballots—Canadians who were in their ridings during the election—so we don't have extensive mail-in experience. We are working to improve that, of course, and as we go on in the coming months, we will build on that experience.

My concern is more operational than it is about security. We've never had any concern in that regard.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Have you spoken to or do you plan to consult with the chief electoral officer of New Zealand about their election and how it was conducted?

[Stéphane Perrault]

We've had some exchanges with them, and now they are just off an election. I note that in New Zealand—and you may want to invite her. Her name is Alicia Wright—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

She's on our list.

[Stéphane Perrault]

Okay, good.

They had postal voting, but they restricted postal voting to people with health issues. It was not postal voting at-large.