Evidence of meeting #106 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was guests.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
Patrick McDonell Sergeant-at-Arms and Corporate Security Officer, House of Commons
Yes. I'll just confirm that we have the ability, given the time, to do an open-source check on an individual.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB
There's the differentiation of guests as well.
You mentioned that there are people who attend and then there are people who are selected and highlighted and show up in a public address. There was no difference in the treatment of those individuals, according to the current protocol.
11:45 a.m.
Clerk of the House of Commons
Correct, because in this case we were not aware that the Speaker was going to recognize somebody in the gallery.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
11:45 a.m.
Eric Duncan
I'll wait for another round.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Thank you.
The clock stopped at five minutes and 44 seconds out of six minutes.
Madam Fortier, you have six minutes, through the chair.
February 13th, 2024 / 11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
As a new member of the committee, I'm very happy for the opportunity to participate in this study. I've already done a bit of work in preparation.
The first question we need to ask is, why are we here today?
Ms. Gaudreau, I believe you asked the same question last week, so I'm trying to get back in that context.
I've had discussions with various parliamentarians, senators and MPs in order to really understand what happens in the House. That's the question we need to ask ourselves today. The role of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs is to examine what happens in the House, draw conclusions and make recommendations so that certain situations don't arise again.
Today we're hoping to shed light on the events that occurred in the House of Commons last September 22.
I understand that there are protocols and procedures to follow when receiving guests and recognizing their presence in the gallery during normal sittings. Now there are similar protocols for recognizing guests during joint addresses in the House, which is what most of my questions will be about.
Mr. Janse, you mentioned this in your opening remarks. I'd like you to give us an overview of the differences, in terms of protocol, between a normal sitting of the House and a joint address.
I consulted House of Commons Procedure and Practice. Chapter 7, page 339, footnote 175 says that there's a protocol, but it isn't specified. The footnote only refers the reader to chapter 9, so I went to chapter 9. At page 423, it's the same thing: They mention a protocol but I'm not seeing any details.
I'd appreciate it if you could explain the difference between the two.
11:50 a.m.
Clerk of the House of Commons
I know House of Commons Procedure and Practice well, but perhaps not in such fine detail.
Are you talking about protocol for addresses or for recognizing guests in the gallery while the House is sitting?
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I've seen detailed procedures relating to normal sittings, but I haven't seen any for joint addresses.
Could you elaborate on the procedure for joint addresses? The fact is that the event that we're discussing today arose during a joint address.
Is the protocol for joint addresses clearly established in terms of invitations as well as recognizing guests in the gallery?
11:50 a.m.
Clerk of the House of Commons
I might ask Ms. Anctil to give you a brief description of how that works, since she's better versed in the appropriate protocol or process.
11:50 a.m.
Nancy Anctil Chief of Protocol and Events Management, House of Commons
I'll give you a brief explanation.
The difference with joint addresses in the House is that senators are invited to take their place in the House of Commons. The first seats are reserved for parliamentarians.
As for the other guests, our procedures are drawn from what the practice has been in the past. Some people are on the list of precedence, including the chief justice, former prime ministers, former governors general, as well as any guests of our distinguished guest. In the case at issue today, these were guests from the Ukrainian embassy and the Ukrainian delegation.
Then, what needs to be approved by parliamentarians is the way that the remaining seats in the gallery and the floor of the House will be distributed. For several years now, the practice has been for these seats to be allocated proportionally. For instance, if there are 300 empty seats, they will be divided in proportion to the representation in the House of Commons and the Senate. That's how the number of people is determined. So every party in the House and every group in the Senate knows how many people they can invite, and then it's up to them to send us a list.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
What happens, specifically, after you've received that list? How do we ascertain that these people meet the required security criteria for admission to the House? Who makes the final decision with regard to who can be present in the chamber?
11:50 a.m.
Chief of Protocol and Events Management, House of Commons
As far as which people will be on the list, it's really up to the parties and groups to decide, and each of them has their own way of doing things. Then, the list is sent to the security team, who does the necessary screening to ensure the physical safety of guests.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
When the Speaker chooses to recognize a guest, who then makes the decision? Is there an established protocol for such cases?
11:50 a.m.
Chief of Protocol and Events Management, House of Commons
If the Speaker wishes to invite people to sit in the gallery, they follow the very same procedure, whether it is in the Senate or the House of Commons.
When it comes to guests being recognized by the Speaker, there isn't really any set procedure. In all the years I've worked here, this kind of thing hasn't happened often.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Given that there doesn't seem to be any established practice, would you recommend establishing such a procedure going forward?
11:50 a.m.
Chief of Protocol and Events Management, House of Commons
During normal sittings of the House, the protocol office deals with requests to recognize the presence of certain guests. There's well-established procedure and criteria in place, which helps decision-making. If there was the same procedure for joint addresses, that might make things easier for the Speaker. That said, I'll leave it up to parliamentarians to take the lead on that, since they are the ones who guide us.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
So, parliamentarians would give directions about visits or joint addresses. Then, these directions would be determined by the practice that you do.
11:50 a.m.
Chief of Protocol and Events Management, House of Commons
I'm not sure I really understand your question.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
You said that it is parliamentarians who decide. How do they decide—
I see that my time is up. We can pick this up later.
Thank you.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger
Indeed, you will be able to ask your question again in the next round.
Ms. Gaudreau, you have the floor for six minutes.